Considering Free Speech Coalition Donation - Please list their accomplishments

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

So, you don't think it is better to fight it then?

I always like a good fight-
but a good fight is an evenly matched fight.

No amount of money that can be raised for the FSC will ever match the resources of the Federal Government-
especially with this regime in office.

Sorry, but to me a good fight is one that can be won.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

So, you don't think it is better to fight it then? If for no other reason than the increased administrative costs.

Do you or your employers really want to mail out 30000 2257 docs to your affiliates?

Man if i had to send out that many docs no one would need me!- Mobbucks and Dirty Danza don't have a zillion affiliates yet and all the content they shoot is exclusive.

They'll have every piece of identification and will show it to whomever they need to - to go about their business.

I agree it's a much bigger problem for larger affiliates than it is forthe companies I represent now

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Good post RedShoe.

I doubt that anyone here is against free speech (well, maybe a few people are). My point was that FSC has been around for something like 14 years, so before I pay them $500, I would like to know that I am doing more than just supporting a noble cause.

ADG Webmaster

As a member I went with a group of lobbyists to help defeat a %5 tax on gross income of adult businesses in California referred to as a "porn tax".

The FSC is a good organization and worth joining for many reasons but that is one I can give you from firsthand experience.

[TheGoldenChild]

Jay

I applaud you for having such passion on this issue- I hope you aren't taking my views too personally.

My views are exactly that, mine.
I am sure I can be proven wrong over time-

I'll tell you this much, if I am proven wrong in the future about the FSC I'll be the first to donate to them.

Let me see them win this battle first...

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

Jay

I applaud you for having such passion on this issue- I hope you aren't taking my views too personally.

My views are exactly that, mine.
I am sure I can be proven wrong over time-

I'll tell you this much, if I am proven wrong in the future about the FSC I'll be the first to donate to them.

Let me see them win this battle first...

KB... I think everyone should take this approach.... I will be able to look forward to losing some competition and bloat of the marketplace.

[invza1]

AsianWebDude,

You can join the FSC for $100. (or based on your sales volume) The link for this lower price wont be up on their "badly designed web site" as you call it until Monday. Or you can contact the FSC directly and ask for Michelle. You can find the # on their "badly designed website". But shit if you feel like its such a waste of money or you dont want to join then why are you worried about it. If you feel that "all it takes is good reading skills, a good copier, some manila folders and a working knowledge of Excel basics to comply with the regs" then it shouldnt matter if the much the membership is you shouldnt be joining since you have it all figured out.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Who is going to take up this fight then?

You know the answer: there is no-one. But you have also sidestepped my questions about FSC and their agenda. You did mention a couple of names, but the ones I saw were people who are not primarily online porn operators.

What is "this fight"?

Many would see the best outcome as having the new regulations overturned completely. I assume (there's that word again) FSC will be attempting that, and if they succeed, terrific.

But a more likely outcome is that they will be successful in overturning or clarifying specific areas within the regulations. Which is where a clear definition of "this fight" matters. Most of us here have no direct interest in - for example - whether a DVD producer is allowed to put his 2257 declaration in his main menu. There are several other areas of interest only to offline operators and different areas of primary interest to webmasters.

In other words, there isn't one fight, but several. The point I have been trying to make is that the FSC site does not make it clear which issues they plan to try to tackle.

So the possibility exists - and I'm only saying it is a possibility because of the lack of information - that beyond sharing a common interest in overturning the regulations in toto, the aims of FSC have little to do with the interests of most here. In that case we still don't have anyone fighting our fight.

Which brings me to the reason I also wanted to know more about the rules of membership. If a few hundred webmasters have been galvanized by current events to join the FSC (rather than contribute solely to the 2257 fund), then if one member equals one vote there could reasonably be enough webmaster members to push the FSC agenda in our direction. But instinct tells me that FSC is not so democratic and that we shall simply be financing an existing agenda. And we don't know what that agenda is...

I'm only asking these questions because FSC may be everything that many are hoping for. But we don't know. And if it should turn out not to be, then we still face your question of "Who is going to take up this fight then?"

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by jayeff

You know the answer: there is no-one. But you have also sidestepped my questions about FSC and their agenda. You did mention a couple of names, but the ones I saw were people who are not primarily online porn operators.

What is "this fight"?

Many would see the best outcome as having the new regulations overturned completely. I assume (there's that word again) FSC will be attempting that, and if they succeed, terrific.

But a more likely outcome is that they will be successful in overturning or clarifying specific areas within the regulations. Which is where a clear definition of "this fight" matters. Most of us here have no direct interest in - for example - whether a DVD producer is allowed to put his 2257 declaration in his main menu. There are several other areas of interest only to offline operators and different areas of primary interest to webmasters.

In other words, there isn't one fight, but several. The point I have been trying to make is that the FSC site does not make it clear which issues they plan to try to tackle.

So the possibility exists - and I'm only saying it is a possibility because of the lack of information - that beyond sharing a common interest in overturning the regulations in toto, the aims of FSC have little to do with the interests of most here. In that case we still don't have anyone fighting our fight.

Which brings me to the reason I also wanted to know more about the rules of membership. If a few hundred webmasters have been galvanized by current events to join the FSC (rather than contribute solely to the 2257 fund), then if one member equals one vote there could reasonably be enough webmaster members to push the FSC agenda in our direction. But instinct tells me that FSC is not so democratic and that we shall simply be financing an existing agenda. And we don't know what that agenda is...

I'm only asking these questions because FSC may be everything that many are hoping for. But we don't know. And if it should turn out not to be, then we still face your question of "Who is going to take up this fight then?"

A very eloquent post-
You made my point- albeit in a more articulate way

[Sly]

After reading this thread... gosh darnit, its too bad ACACIA didn't get what they wanted.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by Sly

After reading this thread... gosh darnit, its too bad ACACIA didn't get what they wanted.

and how much did the FSC have to do with that?
NOTHING.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

and how much did the FSC have to do with that?
NOTHING.

Just a second, re-checking my posts...

Yep, I was right. I didn't say that anywhere.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by Sly

Just a second, re-checking my posts...

Yep, I was right. I didn't say that anywhere.

We are talking about the FSC not ACACIA
stick to the topic.

[Far-L]

FSC has been trying to get web people to participate forever. They know that is something they need.

[After Shock Media]

Anyone have an answer to the question I posed about fiscal accountability to members?

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by Far-L

FSC has been trying to get web people to participate forever. They know that is something they need.

They also know we are "low hanging fruit" that are non unionized and in most cases sheep-

They , like the rest of the world, have the same perception of us- A bunch of unorganized kids making a shitload of money.

We are a "mark" that's all

[Connor]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

I always like a good fight-
but a good fight is an evenly matched fight.

No amount of money that can be raised for the FSC will ever match the resources of the Federal Government-
especially with this regime in office.

Sorry, but to me a good fight is one that can be won.

KB, you've been in the internet biz as long as I have, and I definitely respect you and your many accomplishments. So with that said, I feel it's okay for me to say, with all due respect, I have no respect for many of the arguments that you are presenting here on GFY.

To address this idea that a "fight" is not winnable because the federal government has more money, well, that's just absurd and it makes me wonder why you'd even say that. First, we're not fighting the "government" in its entirety, and if you think the resources of the DOJ are unlimited on things like this then you're making a mistake. They have manpower and financial limitations same as we do.

As far as examples of wins, since I know someone will ask, where do I start? How about most recently with the Extreme Associates decision. I know there are still appeals going on, but it was a win. How about the CDA. How about COPA. The virtual child porn law. Flynt's Supreme Court win. The Lawrence decision. When it comes to the censorship people in government taking on sexuality they QUITE OFTEN open themselves up to a bare-assed spanking at the hands of federal courts. We QUITE OFTEN win over the federal government. And these regs are so poorly worded that there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE that we will win. Could we lose? Sure. But to suggest that this fight is not winnable is just bizarre to say the least. What's your angle?

In terms of some FSC history. Some of you may remember that there were a few problems over there not to long ago, and Kat Sunlove was forced to take over on an interin basis for Bill Lyon as Executive Director. And I'll say that I was NEVER a fan of Lyon. He had ZERO interest in the internet community, and I tried a number of times to get him involved with us. In my opinion his leadership was a real problem for the FSC. There was also some issues with Board members. Kat led a search for a new Executive Director, and Michelle Freridge was hired. She's been in charge for a while now. Anyone who has met Michelle has come away impressed. I can't think of a SINGLE person who hasn't been impressed by her organizational skills, her enthusiasm, her intelligence, and her willingness to reach out to the internet community. She's a tremendous asset. I can tell you that from YNOT's perspective, and I'm sure it's the same for Xbiz and AVN and others, the FSC has been responsive to the adult internet community from the moment Lyon was gone, and especially since Michelle took over. And I can tell you that the FSC, with Lyon gone, has been making strong efforts to reach out to the internet community since WELL before this 2257 shit first came up last year.

The problem is that so many of us in this industry don't give a shit about what could happen sometime in the future. So when the FSC asked for support, most webmasters didn't pay attention. Now, all the sudden, when 2257 is an issue and people need an organization, the FSC is the ONLY group that can even possibly save our butts. And there wouldn't even BE an organization and this chance if it hadn't been for the few companies and individuals who donated money and donated time to keep FSC afloat while the internet community basically mocked those who warned about this administration. Someone would try to raise important issues, and 10 posters would jump on them with a "The Sky Is Falling" chant. You know who you are. So when I hear people too cheap to join, or pulling some BS reason why they don't think they should ante up (and BTW an "individual" membership is only $50, you cheap asses), it really puts a sour taste in my stomach.

What has the FSC done? First, understand that the FSC is most needed when there is a THREAT to the industry. Times have been, for the most part, good in recent years. The shit is JUST NOW hitting the fan, and the FSC is RIGHT THERE to protect this industry. No hesitation, it was ready to go. That said, here's SOME of what it has done:

1) Defeated the "virtual child porn" law at the SUPREME COURT that would have made all of your teens sites a HUGE legal liability and could have put some of you in jail on "child porn" charges to be anally raped by an HIV-infected guy named "Bubba" even though you had age records of your model in pigtails that showed she was really 30 years old. That law would have outlawed most anime too. How many organizations have won a fight at the SUPREME COURT level? Not too many. This is a huge accomplishment people. Recognize it for what it is and show some respect for the people who made it happen.

2) Holds an annual "celebrate free speech" lobbying days, which gives people from our industry a chance to meet with politicians in Sacramento, CA, every single year to put a face on the adult industry. I participated in this myself last time out. Those of you who didn't HAD your chance.

3) Has Kat Sunlove in Sacramento an a REGULAR basis, protecting the health of the California adult industry, where most content is shot.

4) Was center in keeping those proposed "mandatory condom" requirements from becoming a reality after the HIV scare. Did you think those politicians backed off because they got bored? All you fools with "facial" sites would be making a ton of cash if your stunt cocks had to wear rubbers while they were getting their dicks sucked.

5) Helps educate adult entertainers on health issues.

6) Showed character and stood against .XXX and the questionable motives of those who pushed it.

7) Hired a full-time federal lobbyist -- the first for an adult industry organization -- who is in Washington looking out for the interests of the ENTIRE adult industry.

And now they're ready to jump in for 2257 even though so many of us on the internet side haven't done ANYTHING to support them to this point. We've just hung back and enjoyed the benefits of their work and the donations of a few companies who have had the good sense to look out for their industry.

So am I SERIOUSLY seeing a debate on GFY as to whether or not people who work in this business should support the Free Speech Coalition? You've GOT to be kididng me!!!

[TheGoldenChild]

I think Connor has raised some valid points-

However don't you all agree it should be a member of the Board of the FREE SPEECH COALITION making this type of post or at least a representive
This Michelle sounds like a great person to make a posting like this one-
or better yet to make a few phone calls to people raising the awareness. I know whenever I went about fundraising-I was on phones all day long campaigning-

Who is campaigning to the webmasters?

Has she Michelle Freridge gotten involved with the webmasters at all?

Also Connor in order to disagree with my posts here lately ( plural) I think you'd have to know more about what is really going on.


What other arguments on this board have you had a problem with me over?
Just curious...

[DWB]

Were these not the same people who were pushing the .xxx domain and was standing to profit a large amount of money from it? If I remember, they were going to get a cut from each one sold if they were able to get it into action.

Am I confusing them with someone else?

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Were these not the same people who were pushing the .xxx domain and was standing to profit a large amount of money from it? If I remember, they were going to get a cut from each one sold if they were able to get it into action.

Am I confusing them with someone else?

Bingo
but it didn't happen.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Were these not the same people who were pushing the .xxx domain and was standing to profit a large amount of money from it? If I remember, they were going to get a cut from each one sold if they were able to get it into action.

Am I confusing them with someone else?

When you say "same people" do you mean FSC? Because you've just raised another great point in their favor. The FSC board voted AGAINST supporting the .XXX domain name extension EVEN THOUGH they stood to profit from supporting it. That of course speaks HIGHLY of their character. I wonder which people are supporting it now?

[Connor]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

I think Connor has raised some valid points-

However don't you all agree it should be a member of the Board of the FREE SPEECH COALITION making this type of post or at least a representive
This Michelle sounds like a great person to make a posting like this one-
or better yet to make a few phone calls to people raising the awareness. I know whenever I went about fundraising-I was on phones all day long campaigning-

Let me ask you this KB... it it WERE a member of the board making my post would you feel better about the FSC?

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

Man if i had to send out that many docs no one would need me!- Mobbucks and Dirty Danza don't have a zillion affiliates yet and all the content they shoot is exclusive.

They'll have every piece of identification and will show it to whomever they need to - to go about their business.

I agree it's a much bigger problem for larger affiliates than it is forthe companies I represent now

OK, KB - so you say 2257 doesn't effect you now (I don't agree with that at all) -- the new regs definitely will effect the whole affiliate side of the business in such a huge way it is just fucking mind blowing.

It can't believe you can't see that!

And, for such a self proclaimed "marketing guru" like yourself -- you smug attitude makes me not want to do business with Mobbucks or Dirty Danza.

Congratulations.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

I'll tell you this much, if I am proven wrong in the future about the FSC I'll be the first to donate to them.

Let me see them win this battle first...

Great, there is a quote for the Darwin Awards if I ever heard one...help out after we've lost. If you've made the millions you say you have...it should be nothing to step up and help out a little -- hell, think of it as a tax write off.

[TheGoldenChild]

Jay no smug attitude here
It's just not my concern.

As long as my programs convert- and traffic is up- It's not my business to inspect their 2257 records or even get involved that's all I am saying-

OC Cash is a great program bro-
It truly is.

I think it'd be a shame to make a business decision about not wanting to send to one of my sponsors based upon me having my own opinions don't you?

If I stole from you, lied to you, or cheated you - I can see your point of not sending traffic to these fine programs-
But to be blocked, and have you not do biz with me because I strongly believe the FSC is more about making money than helping us...

Come on man-
Your program, personnel, and reputation are better than that.

[DWB]

The bottom line is really this... WHOEVER is fighting this for us needs some support. By that I don't mean you have to pay $500, but give what you can. Do something.

This fight is already in play so it will happen with or without our help at this point. If people stop giving money, the fight will not end. They are well funded as it is and are not going to run out of money but you really should help with what you can.

BTW... I also have to some what agree with KB in regards to them wanting to get paid on this deal. This is a golden opportunity for anyone to take full advantage of the situation, if they were so inclined.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

Great, there is a quote for the Darwin Awards if I ever heard one...help out after we've lost. If you've made the millions you say you have...it should be nothing to step up and help out a little -- hell, think of it as a tax write off.

Who said I made millions?
All I am saying is that the FSC needs to show me where they are making things happen before I'd contribute anything more to them.

I still have yet to see a representative from the FSC come here and answer the questions you all can't.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

yet to see a representative from the FSC come here and answer the questions you all can't.

You never answered my question KB. If a member of the board HAD made my post, would you now feel any different about the FSC? If that had been the case, would you be talking about donating now? Somehow I think it would make no difference to you.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by Connor

You never answered my question KB. If a member of the board HAD made my post, would you now feel any different about the FSC? If that had been the case, would you be talking about donating now?

NO.


I'd feel different if they didn't have people on their Board in the past who didn't get free BJ's for their participation.

I know this is the porn biz- but there should be some semblance of professionalism.


I'd feel better if I saw where a $75,000 /yr salary went to people making a difference for us.

I'd also feel better if they did a full disclosure of how they spend the money.

In the past with My Lyon, it look slike a lot of it went into pockets of others as CASH..

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by invza1

AsianWebDude,

You can join the FSC for $100. (or based on your sales volume) The link for this lower price wont be up on their "badly designed web site" as you call it until Monday. Or you can contact the FSC directly and ask for Michelle. You can find the # on their "badly designed website". But shit if you feel like its such a waste of money or you dont want to join then why are you worried about it. If you feel that "all it takes is good reading skills, a good copier, some manila folders and a working knowledge of Excel basics to comply with the regs" then it shouldnt matter if the much the membership is you shouldnt be joining since you have it all figured out.

Watch your tone there buddy...

I am allowed to say "badly designed web site" because I am an expert on badly designed web sites according to some people who visit my sites, lol.

My excuse is that I don't know a line of code, and I'm too busy cranking out content to learn. FSC supposedly paid someone to design their site. BTW, if people aren't configured for flash, or their browser is low on memory, they won't see the Join FSC link. At minimum there should be a text link for that in addition to the flash link.

I think a $100 Membership fee is much more reasonable than $500 for a Producer (or $300 "per site" for Webmasters).

Unfortunately, when I called the FSC offices at 4:30pm local time to check out the $100 Membership deal, I was sent to a generic voicemail box. You would think a lobbying group with a $400,000+ budget would be able to afford someone (or get a volunteer) to take calls - especially if it is about Membership, let alone important legislative matters (I can hear the media now, "No one from the FSC was available for comment when contacted during normal business hours to comment on the 2257 regulations").

I do feel that the adult industry needs an organization to lobby on behalf of it, and I would like to be a part of an industry association that is effective and responsive to it's Memberships needs (not just the big players).

Considering how long they have been around, I am surprised that FSC doesn't appear to have accomplished all that much (not to mention the internal issues with their previous Director, etc).

For me this goes beyond just the 2257 issue, since as I earlier stated in this thread, I shoot my own content and have my 2257 documentation in order (I'll have the cross-indexing completed prior to the June deadline).

If I become a Member of the FSC, then I will act to ensure that they are indeed looking out for the issues that I feel are relevent. Who knows? I might even do some volunteer work, and upgrade to an Institutional Membership as my company grows.

I guess I'll wait until they open again Tuesday and then see about the $100 Membership deal.

ADG Webmaster

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

Jay no smug attitude here
It's just not my concern.

As long as my programs convert- and traffic is up- It's not my business to inspect their 2257 records or even get involved that's all I am saying-

OC Cash is a great program bro-
It truly is.

I think it'd be a shame to make a business decision about not wanting to send to one of my sponsors based upon me having my own opinions don't you?

If I stole from you, lied to you, or cheated you - I can see your point of not sending traffic to these fine programs-
But to be blocked, and have you not do biz with me because I strongly believe the FSC is more about making money than helping us...

Come on man-
Your program, personnel, and reputation are better than that.

How can traffic keep going up if your affiliate are closing their thumb TGPs because the fear they might wind up in Club Fed for owning them? What part of that don't you get? It that sense, it effects you for sure.

Still, you haven't answered my question: Who is going to fight the goverment on this? I agree with what someone posted earlier...the goverment only has finite resources to attack this. It's not like they have appropriated an Iraq sized budget on this, so I think it is definently a fight we can win.

And you do come off sounding very smug, even asshole-ish I must say..."well I don't care what happens to anybody else, just as long as I'm not effected..."

Truth be told: Dirty D is a PERFECT TARGET for the goverment to go after:



That, my friend, is perfect for on obstinacy charge: a small program with a limited budget to put up a legal fight and coupled with extreme material...then they are going to back with a 2257 inspection. Like I said, Dirty Danza could have 99,999 records in perfect order, but the 1 that is out constitutes a felony.

That being said, why don?t we stop this before it goes that far?

Judging by your attitude, that wouldn?t really matter to you ? you could just go off and work for the next company.

[TheGoldenChild]

Your attorney is who should fight the government on this Jay.

I may come off like an asshole- and that is fine for the masses who don't know me or know what I know.

I think I got to see very clearly with my own eyes what goes on in the FSC office- it was located where my office used to be
In GOALIE's headquarters in Chatsworth.

I recall seeing a lot of Solitaire being played on their computers. Now I will say this...
If they are doing something noble and fighting for our rights- than I will stand corrected sometime in the near future with their actions.

Your money is going to the "fight" it's not guaranteeing anythingmore than they will fight it.

Just like attorneys I have retained to fight- in some cases I won- in some cases I lost. Overall I can say that anytime lawyers get involved you lose overall.

There are a lot of personal agendas involved here- people who are getting paid to do this.

I'd like to see how many people work "Pro Bono" besides Aly Drummond
:-))

That I think we can agree on-

Also it's "AFFECTED"
Not effected.

[Connor]

You're lucky you didn't bite on that one KB, but I wish you had. I AM a member of the FSC Board. I was voted in two weeks ago, but the PR hasn't gone out yet and goes out next week. I didn't want to trump the PR by announcing it here, but since you seem to think my authority is somewhat challenged if I'm not a Board member, well, now you know. But I think I was right when I guessed that wouldn't matter to you.

I spent ALL DAY today in a Board of Directors meeting volunteering my time and doing my best to represent the internet industry and help in the 2257 fight, on YNOT's dime I might add since I'm a YNOT employe, only to check out GFY and see all these posts from a small group of people with just wild assertions about the FSC. I haven't gotten that first blowjob or fat kickback yet, but I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I do. I'm looking forward to that. Was it supposted to be part of the orientation package?

If you have any LEGITIMATE questions about the FSC then please give me a ring on Tuesday and I'll go over all your concerns with you to the best of my ability, and explain why you're dead wrong about both the money issue AND the internet issue. If you're just stirring things up then no need to give me a call. In the meantime, can't hang out on GFY all night, and I think I made my feelings plenty clear in my very long post above.

Anyone with questions can feel free to email me since I probably won't be back on GFY until Tuesday.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by Connor

(The FSC) was center in keeping those proposed "mandatory condom" requirements from becoming a reality after the HIV scare. Did you think those politicians backed off because they got bored? All you fools with "facial" sites would be making a ton of cash if your stunt cocks had to wear rubbers while they were getting their dicks sucked.

ADG Webmaster

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

I'd like to see how many people work "Pro Bono".

You must have not had a chance to respond to my last post yet.

Pro Bono Work = Pro Bono results

[bhutocracy]

Half the tards on GFY boast like little kids about having $5000 rims or a $1000 cell phone but $300-$500 cost of doing business and keeping your business going???

*shakes head*

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by Connor

You're lucky you didn't bite on that one KB, but I wish you had. I AM a member of the FSC Board. I was voted in two weeks ago, but the PR hasn't gone out yet and goes out next week. I didn't want to trump the PR by announcing it here, but since you seem to think my authority is somewhat challenged if I'm not a Board member, well, now you know. But I think I was right when I guessed that wouldn't matter to you.

I spent ALL DAY today in a Board of Directors meeting volunteering my time and doing my best to represent the internet industry and help in the 2257 fight, on YNOT's dime I might add since I'm a YNOT employe, only to check out GFY and see all these posts from a small group of people with just wild assertions about the FSC. I haven't gotten that first blowjob or fat kickback yet, but I'll be sure to let you know as soon as I do. I'm looking forward to that. Was it supposted to be part of the orientation package?

If you have any LEGITIMATE questions about the FSC then please give me a ring on Tuesday and I'll go over all your concerns with you to the best of my ability, and explain why you're dead wrong about both the money issue AND the internet issue. If you're just stirring things up then no need to give me a call. In the meantime, can't hang out on GFY all night, and I think I made my feelings plenty clear in my very long post above.

Anyone with questions can feel free to email me since I probably won't be back on GFY until Tuesday.

Connor- Is it true that YNOT is now running peoples sites for them now?

Also have you ever shot content or owned a website?

I just want to know more about your background prior to coming to YNOT -
I am not being disrespectful- I am truly curious that's all.
YOU DO HOWEVER write good articles!

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

You must have not had a chance to respond to my last post yet.

Pro Bono Work = Pro Bono results

and $400,000 to fight the Government= FAT CHANCE
An obscenity charge alone costs over 1 million dollars to defend.

What does $400,000 pay for?

It doesn't even buy a house in your neighborhood.

[xxxjay]

KB - I love you when you totally get shut down you just seem to ignore those posts. You just got schooled like 2 or 3 times in a row by Conner and I.

Ok, so you wouldn't respond to my post on Dirty D, and that's fine, you did get hammered pretty hard on that one. Well, let?s take your other client Mobbucks and this site:

http://www.brazilianbitches.com/index.html??

It is a Brazilian site, so I?m assuming it was shot in Brazil. Are you even aware of some of the new language in 2257 regarding shooting in other counties, using foreign models as an American company, and the new restrictions on acceptable forms of foreign IDs?

The wording is pretty fucking draconian and I?m welling to bet if you continue to sell that site after the 23rd it will be illegal. I don?t know what exactly Mobbucks has done ID wise regarding those shoots, but I am 99% certain that you will have some kind of problems with that content should the new regs take EFFECT!

I don?t know what you were doing the day after the regs were published (probably sitting around with your thumb up your ass), but in Sherman Oaks the FSC was having a meeting (which I was at) and putting their heads together to figure out how to best tackle these issues. How can you still attack their credibly?

Maybe they?ve had problems in the past, but right now they are the only ones trying to make sure the Feds come knocking at everyone?s door. And if you have some kind of doubts about them -- why don?t you just keep quite about it? There is too much division right now in an industry that needs to remain united ? weather it has an AFFECTS on KB or not!

[TheGoldenChild]

Maybe they?ve had problems in the past, but right now they are the only ones trying to make sure the Feds come knocking at everyone?s door. And if you have some kind of doubts about them -- why don?t you just keep quite about it? There is too much division right now in an industry that needs to remain united ? weather it has an AFFECTS on KB or not!

they are sending feds to peoples door now?

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

Maybe they?ve had problems in the past, but right now they are the only ones trying to make sure the Feds come knocking at everyone?s door. And if you have some kind of doubts about them -- why don?t you just keep quite about it? There is too much division right now in an industry that needs to remain united ? weather it has an AFFECTS on KB or not!

they are sending feds to peoples door now?

?don't come?...excuse me, you know what I meant.

Attacking a grammar error is a typical response of someone who is getting their ass handed to them in consecutive rounds of verbal sparring.

Concede, KB. Admit you are wrong.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

Your attorney is who should fight the government on this Jay.

I may come off like an asshole- and that is fine for the masses who don't know me or know what I know.

I think I got to see very clearly with my own eyes what goes on in the FSC office- it was located where my office used to be
In GOALIE's headquarters in Chatsworth.

I recall seeing a lot of Solitaire being played on their computers. Now I will say this...
If they are doing something noble and fighting for our rights- than I will stand corrected sometime in the near future with their actions.

Your money is going to the "fight" it's not guaranteeing anythingmore than they will fight it.

Just like attorneys I have retained to fight- in some cases I won- in some cases I lost. Overall I can say that anytime lawyers get involved you lose overall.

There are a lot of personal agendas involved here- people who are getting paid to do this.

I'd like to see how many people work "Pro Bono" besides Aly Drummond
:-))

That I think we can agree on-

Also it's "AFFECTED"
Not effected.

I can see what your saying I will say it again 10 yrs out and very little media presence which is so important. No letters to the editor. They fought to have virtual cp legal,which to me wasnt the best idea.Having girls pretend to be underage is a bad idea. Them doing things with local CA gov does nothing for webmasters. It seemed very focused for the chatsworth bunch. Get the messaqe out to the public is very important. My father saw about the new 2257 on the news and believed it was to fight cp then I explained to him and his view changed 180 degrees. Someone should be doing that then meeting with local CA reps so they dont charge a 5% adult tax. Which wasnt bad because it is saying that porn is a taxable prodct therefore legal. Everyone thinks short term lol

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

?don't come?...excuse me, you know what I meant.

Attacking a grammar error is a typical response of someone who is getting their ass handed to them in consecutive rounds of verbal sparring.

Concede, KB. Admit you are wrong.

I am not wrong here Jay-
I support your opinion- i really do. If you feel you are doing the right thing, then you are doing the right thing.

I know you feel that you are doing everything in your power to fight this fight and you very well may be-

However- on the point about us shooting in Brazil- Do you have to shoot all your content in Brazil to have Brazilian content?

I see a lot of Ebony sites out there that haven't been shot in Africa.

[TheGoldenChild]

'Maybe they?ve had problems in the past, but right now they are the only ones trying to make sure the Feds come knocking at everyone?s door. And if you have some kind of doubts about them -- why don?t you just keep quite about it? There is too much division right now in an industry that needs to remain united ? weather it has an AFFECTS on KB or not!'

Agreed.
Speaking of other problems does anyone know whatever happened to the IMPA and ACACIA?

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

I am not wrong here Jay-
I support your opinion- i really do. If you feel you are doing the right thing, then you are doing the right thing.

I know you feel that you are doing everything in your power to fight this fight and you very well may be-

However- on the point about us shooting in Brazil- Do you have to shoot all your content in Brazil to have Brazilian content?

I see a lot of Ebony sites out there that haven't been shot in Africa.

I did say I assumed that it was shot in Brazil. There also is some language that says you can't shoot foriegn models here...Mobbucks might want to check.

Just admit your are wrong. Or tell me what you would do to reverse the tide? I'm up for suggestions.

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

I did say I assumed that it was shot in Brazil. There also is some language that says you can't shoot foriegn models here...Mobbucks might want to check.

Just admit your are wrong. Or tell me what you would do to reverse the tide? I'm up for suggestions.

I won't give you reasons for the same reason you don't see me talking on PANELS at AVN SHOWS or any tradeshow for that matter-

I simply have not made millions of dollars for myself in the content business nor have I owned an affiliate site myself
I am a NOBODY when it comes to my opinion- I am only good for spreading the word- that's what I do

Now if the FREE SPEECH COALITION would like to use my resources and mainstream media contacts to help get the word out I am willing to give them everyone I do business with
Starting with 20/20 of ABC and 60 Minutes
I can then send them to WIRED MAGAZINE, NY TIMES, Wall Street Journal and every morning radio show there is in this country

and I'd do this FREE OF CHARGE
Pro Bono to me means PRO BONO
accepting NO MONEY IN RETURN

Do you know why they won't come to me for these contacts Jay?

Tell me why you think they wouldn't...

[TheGoldenChild]

KB is offering his services for FREE
and I guarantee I 'll never be called upon for it...
what a shame

[DWB]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

KB - I love you when you totally get shut down you just seem to ignore those posts. You just got schooled like 2 or 3 times in a row by Conner and I.

Ok, so you wouldn't respond to my post on Dirty D, and that's fine, you did get hammered pretty hard on that one. Well, let?s take your other client Mobbucks and this site:

http://www.brazilianbitches.com/index.html??

It is a Brazilian site, so I?m assuming it was shot in Brazil. Are you even aware of some of the new language in 2257 regarding shooting in other counties, using foreign models as an American company, and the new restrictions on acceptable forms of foreign IDs?

The wording is pretty fucking draconian and I?m welling to bet if you continue to sell that site after the 23rd it will be illegal. I don?t know what exactly Mobbucks has done ID wise regarding those shoots, but I am 99% certain that you will have some kind of problems with that content should the new regs take EFFECT!

I don?t know what you were doing the day after the regs were published (probably sitting around with your thumb up your ass), but in Sherman Oaks the FSC was having a meeting (which I was at) and putting their heads together to figure out how to best tackle these issues. How can you still attack their credibly?

Maybe they?ve had problems in the past, but right now they are the only ones trying to make sure the Feds come knocking at everyone?s door. And if you have some kind of doubts about them -- why don?t you just keep quite about it? There is too much division right now in an industry that needs to remain united ? weather it has an AFFECTS on KB or not!

Foreign content / models is fine as long as you have a government issued ID. Many of you are missing the big picture here. Do you honestly think the US gov could make us NOT work with people from other countries for any reason? To think some of you believe that is comical. Use your heads people. We do not live in Cuba or North Korea.

The only thing that is a pain in the ass from my POV is:

1) The ridiculous amount of paperwork. Personally I think that sucks ass but that [B]is far from unconstitutional[B]. That's just a lot of paperwork.

2) Violating the models privacy and safety. This I have a major issue with and I think they will destroy this when the time comes.

Foreign sites, content and models will be fine. To not allow it would in fact be blatantly unconstitutional and easy to tear apart when challenged. How could the USA honestly prohibit us from doing business from models from foreign countries? That's absurd.

Too many of you are freaking out based on what your reading on the boards and NOT from what your attorney is telling you. I would bet 90% of you have not even spoken to your attorney on this... and out of the 10% who did, 5% of those is not dealing with someone who is competent in this field. I know a certain webmaster who is sold on what to do by taking information from HIS FAMILY ATTORNEY who practices general law.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by kBizzle

KB is offering his services for FREE
and I guarantee I 'll never be called upon for it...
what a shame

sadly you are probably right

[TheGoldenChild]

http://www.avn.com/index.php?Primary...tent_ID=228409

READ- it isn't illegal yet to be informed

[TheGoldenChild]

Originally Posted by tony404

sadly you are probably right

Tony I know I am right.
I am seldomly wrong.

I wish I was wrong more often when dealing with this industry , fact of the matter is I know so much I am desensitized.

It's a shame I can't even disagree with some people though.

I may not like some people, or some companies out there- but at least I respect their opinions and don't take myself so seriously.

Truth of the matter is I like Jay and this little tiff tells me a lot about him. I'd love to have a guy lik Jay in my corner if I ever needed him- Loyalty is one thing that has been missing from this business for a long time.

Jay I applaud you for being passionate about this isue as it's definitely an important one.

I'd rather see you in a position on the Board than those already sitting in their seats. With the exception of Scott Tucker- He is a nice guy, and smart businessman