Epoch Cash Flow Problems? - GoFuckYourself.com

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 04:27 PM

Dear Valued Client:

As you may be aware, MasterCard fined Paycom $1.5 million several weeks ago. Our bank held funds from subsequent settlement proceeds at that time. Paycom has no plans to pass these fines through to you, as our portfolio was not out of compliance nor should we have been subject to a fine under any MasterCard Fine Program.

As you may also be aware, Paycom has filed a lawsuit in Federal court here in Los Angeles against MasterCard for the above and many other issues related to MasterCard's unfair dealings with Paycom.

The $1.5 million fine and the cost of litigation has strained our cash flow. As a result, we must adjust payment days from Tuesdays to Fridays, beginning next week. Payments due today, Tuesday, June 10th are being made today. Payments due next week, on the 17th will be made on Friday, June 20th, a delay of 72 hours. Payments to Resellers will not be affected and Resellers will continue to be paid on Tuesday's. We are projecting that we will be able to return to Tuesday payments as circumstances change. We are not projecting any further delays, nor do we believe that any additional fines should be levied.

Paycom fully understand that delays in payments are problematic to our clients and a reminder of situations in Paycom's past. You can be assured that those days are gone. This issue is related to the MasterCard fine and the costs associated with the lawsuit. Over the past 3 years we have worked diligently to regain your confidence in our ability to pay you on time, or to keep you informed before a delay. This is one of those times that we all dread; yet it is unavoidable. We want to give you as much notice as possible about this delay, albeit only 72 hours.

Clay, Joel and I are asking for your continued support, confidence and loyalty to us and to Paycom. We are working hard and fighting hard for our mutual success.

Thank you,

Chris Mallick
Chief Executive Officer

--The Team at Epoch

Gary · 06-10-2003, 04:30 PM

interesting

Juicy D. Links · 06-10-2003, 04:31 PM

Martin · 06-10-2003, 04:31 PM

Damn!

chowda · 06-10-2003, 04:32 PM

cash flow? who are u Robert kiyosaki?

sexyavs · 06-10-2003, 04:35 PM

Well Im sure if they passed on the fines we are all supposed to pay, there would be 2 days late...

Heck Im fine with it..

Keep fighting it epoch..

Chris

mpegposter · 06-10-2003, 04:37 PM

Yep just got that also. You try litigating a multi billion dollar a year business (that's just their PROFIT margins) and take million dollar aribitrary fines and see how it goes.

optikalz · 06-10-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chowda
cash flow? who are u Robert kiyosaki?

Kiyosaki's kinda suspect. He made most, if not all, of his money not from any business success arising from his advice but from the sales of his book.

gothweb · 06-10-2003, 04:44 PM

I saw the first two words of this thread and got nervous...

foe · 06-10-2003, 04:45 PM

another one bytes the dust

Jason · 06-10-2003, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by foe
another one bytes the dust

Get a clue.

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 04:48 PM

A very good friend of mine is an antitrust lawyer, and he says that antitrust cases are extremely expensive to litigate -- even more so than regular lawsuits --- and very difficult to prove.

I'm not surprized that they're not passing on the fines to webmasters because, their lawsuit states that in some cases, they can't pass on the fines even if they wanted to.

chowda · 06-10-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by linkyd

Kiyosaki's kinda suspect. He made most, if not all, of his money not from any business success arising from his advice but from the sales of his book.

he made money telling ppl how to get rich.

and he maybe did one or two real estate deals

EscortBiz · 06-10-2003, 04:50 PM

I dont use them but the fact that

a) they annonce a payment delay in advance

b) its a small delay

I wouldnt worry

The one thing that all companies that went bust had in commom was they had "no communication" if you use a company and you get no communications and there is a problem run as fast as you can.

I remember one even bullshitted they had a gag order LMAO

Good luck epoch with the lawsuit

Kimmykim · 06-10-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind
A very good friend of mine is an antitrust lawyer, and he says that antitrust cases are extremely expensive to litigate -- even more so than regular lawsuits --- and very hard to prove.

Wow, I'm sure your lawyer friend is more capable than the attorneys that have been retained by Paycom! ROFLMAO.

sexyavs, very true. I believe I read that another processor had passed on more than a million dollars in fines to a single account, not something that happened in this case.

dig420 · 06-10-2003, 04:54 PM

I'm sticking with Epoch, they've always come thru tough times in the past with flying colors and they're smart enough to keep the boat afloat.

JFK · 06-10-2003, 04:55 PM

Good for them , they are here informing people instead of hiding.A lot of other companys should take note!

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Wow, I'm sure your lawyer friend is more capable than the attorneys that have been retained by Paycom! ROFLMAO.

Actually, my friend is very capable.

He won a billion dollar antitrust case for the state of California.

But it took ten years. Hence my comment about the expense.

EscortBiz · 06-10-2003, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind

Actually, my friend is very capable.

He won a billion dollar antitrust case for the state of California.

But it took ten years. Hence my comment about the expense.

hook me up I want to file a lawsuit over that tiny frozen pizza scam

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ighlight=pizza

Triple 6 · 06-10-2003, 05:02 PM

fuck epoch. maybe they are getting fined cuz how they dick their customers around? hmmmm i jus dont know.

Processing Princess · 06-10-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
I'm sticking with Epoch, they've always come thru tough times in the past with flying colors and they're smart enough to keep the boat afloat.

Thanks to you and everyone for your support.

C

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 05:06 PM

Antitrust cases are very difficult to prove (not to mention expensive) because you have to convince the court that a different marketplace would exist without the alleged monopoly, in this case Mastercard.

So it's not like a regular court case where you gather evidence about WHAT happened and prove that to the court.

In an antitrust case you have to try to prove what WOULD happen if Mastercard wasn't around, but there's no hard evidence because it's all theory --- not documented facts that happened in the past.

Not to say it can't be done, but it's much more difficult and expensive.

Kimmykim · 06-10-2003, 05:10 PM

LOL nevermind, I'll give you credit, you just love to pick at anything you think might be a sore. I'm amazed that your friend the lawyer stuck with a suit for ten years, since most lawsuits are settled well in advance of ten years, what's the case about, I'd like to have a look at it?

tony286 · 06-10-2003, 05:11 PM

Say what you want about ibill but they pay on time. lol

Triple 6 · 06-10-2003, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Processing Princess

Thanks to you and everyone for your support.

C

Speaking of 'support', whats with epochs? When I had a problem, and Chris requested I sent him more information so he can look over it, I never hear from him again. Not in the thread I initiated, nor any response to the fucking ELEVEN emails of information I sent.

So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a broke ass billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)

Serge_Oprano · 06-10-2003, 05:16 PM

Epoch,
you are doing it wrong!!!

you should:
1) be quite about it
2) don't answer phone calls
3) get to the bank in the middle of the nite and withdraw all the money they hold
4) change your name to LikeEpoch!
;-))))

Kimmykim · 06-10-2003, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Triple 6
So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a POS billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)

Interesting, I guess you missed the part where IBill and Jettis have said they were fined as well?

Get your head out of the sand and keep up with current events.

Anthony_A · 06-10-2003, 05:19 PM

No Kimmy, he was busy paying his 350 bucks to ACPays to worry about reading that other ppl were fined too.

Jason · 06-10-2003, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anthony_A
No Kimmy, he was busy paying his 350 bucks to ACPays to worry about reading that other ppl were fined too.

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
LOL nevermind, I'll give you credit, you just love to pick at anything you think might be a sore. I'm amazed that your friend the lawyer stuck with a suit for ten years, since most lawsuits are settled well in advance of ten years, what's the case about, I'd like to have a look at it?

Kimmy, believe it or not, I wasn't trying to "pick at anything."

I believe the Epoch notice mentions lawsuit expense, and I was just pointing out that antitrust lawsuits are particularly expensive.

I don't have a link handy, but the case was a well-publicized lawsuit involving both the state of California and the city of Long Beach against the oil companies.

They had to prove that the oil companies were manipulating oil prices through a pipeline that they all controlled, making the prices appear artificially lower so they could pay lower royalties on state and city lands.

It was a difficult, lengthy case because you had to show that the prices would actually be higher, but there was no hard evidence to that effect. Hence the typical difficulty with antitrust cases.

sexyavs · 06-10-2003, 05:28 PM

Hey Porn Dollar

I like your program..

You guys take opt in emails?

Chris

Triple 6 · 06-10-2003, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Interesting, I guess you missed the part where IBill and Jettis have said they were fined as well?

Get your head out of the sand and keep up with current events.

Ok, I dont have all the details why all the others were fined. So the fuck what. I still think Paycom is a POS company. They fuck me over by tacking on shit I didnt agree to purchase, they fuck me over by NOT cancelling those purchases that I chose to cancel and got confirmation emails saying they were 'cancelled', and then Chris M. for ignoring the information he requested and not ever getting back to me. But you know all this already.

Thats my beef with Paycom, Martha. I don't use IBill or Jettis and could care less what the fuck they were fined for.

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Triple 6

So.... what did you guys get fined for? Running a broke ass billing cancellation system? No? Well that would have been my guess ;)

If you read their lawsuit, they were basically fined for two things:

1) Going over Mastercard's 1 percent chargeback threshold.

2) Issuing too many refunds "in lieu" of chargebacks which, Mastercard claims, violates their rules.

If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

Obviously Epoch is disputing all of this in their lawsuit and says Mastercard is treating them unfairly.

Triple 6 · 06-10-2003, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind

If you read their lawsuit, they were basically fined for two things:

1) Going over Mastercard's 1 percent chargeback threshold.

2) Issuing too many refunds "in lieu" of chargebacks which, Mastercard claims, violates their rules.

If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

Obviously Epoch is disputing all of this in their lawsuit and says Mastercard is treating them unfairly.

Thanks for the info... Well I guess my 'guess' was sort of right. Broke ass billing system would pretty much provoke chargebacks. I mean, damn, when I click "CANCEL", and I get an email that says it was 'cancelled'... I would expect that it was cancelled. Or am I asking too much?

Elephant_Gut · 06-10-2003, 05:41 PM

Well hopefully Epoch makes it through okay and can resume their regular payments. But I dunno. Not a good sign...

I also find it ironic about all the negative posts against Verotel and Glo-bill recently, mostly rumor mongering. My Verotel and Glo-bill checks continue to arrive on time, like clockwork, knock on wood. Meanwhile, iBill, Epoch and Jettis all get fined up the wazoo and now Epoch is having 'cashflow' problems.

But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!

directfiesta · 06-10-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind

If your chargebacks are more than .5 percent, and your refunds also exceed .5 percent, Mastercard starts counting refunds as chargebacks.

Wonder if this applies to " non-adult" accounts also....

I am not a customer of Epoch, but if I was, I would appreciate the thruthfull and no bs approach ...

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Triple 6

Thanks for the info... Well I guess my 'guess' was sort of right. Broke ass billing system would pretty much provoke chargebacks. I mean, damn, when I click "CANCEL", and I get an email that says it was 'cancelled'... I would expect that it was cancelled. Or am I asking too much?

Well, I have to agree, if that's what happened. And I do agree with Kimmy that the fine problem has happened to all of the IPSPs and other processors.

BUT, I think the real problem is the following: How does an IPSP make money with only a 15 percent or less fee? Huge volume.

Which means the IPSP has to listen to their big clients and become partners with them. The big guys want the sleazy billing tactics because they make more money with it in the short run.

And the IPSPs go along because they make more money too.

The problem is that it pisses off Mastercard et. al., and getting in line with Mastercard loses you a ton of money. Compliance is very expensive.

So the IPSPs tend to blow it off until they're fined to death and, by then, it's too late and Mastercard is threatening to cut them off.

The bottom line is that the financial incentives create a conflict of interest of sorts.

FATPad · 06-10-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz

hook me up I want to file a lawsuit over that tiny frozen pizza scam

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...ighlight=pizza

People who buy pizza in a bag deserve what they get.

optikalz · 06-10-2003, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chowda

he made money telling ppl how to get rich.

and he maybe did one or two real estate deals

Exactly. One one of his books, I believe it is Rich Dad Poor Dad, he takes the isolated and highly unusual situation of buying real estate for super dirt cheap and flipping it.

His books are inspiration...just keep it at that level. But for concrete steps on how to become rich, that's up to your own imagination and ability to exploit opportunities.

Jason · 06-10-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexyavs
Hey Porn Dollar

I like your program..

You guys take opt in emails?

Chris

Let's discuss. http://porndollar.com/support.html

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elephant_Gut

But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!

For crying out loud. When will you people wake the fuck up and realize some fundamentals of good business practice.

Visa and Mastercard make their money by protecting the consumer. If they protect the consumer, the customer uses their cards more and they make more money.

The online porn industry makes its money by screwing the consumer. Visa and Mastercard have said to hell with that.

You don't screw Visa and Mastercard. THEY SCREW YOU.

Get in line with their rules or get out of biz. Period.

FATPad · 06-10-2003, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind

For crying out loud. When will you people wake the fuck up and realize some fundamentals of good business practice.

Visa and Mastercard make their money by protecting the consumer. If they protect the consumer, the customer uses their cards more and they make more money.

The online porn industry makes its money by screwing the consumer. Visa and Mastercard have said to hell with that.

You don't screw Visa and Mastercard. THEY SCREW YOU.

Get in line with their rules or get out of biz. Period.

I agree with that for the most part. I've always thought that.

But did you read the actual complaint Epoch filed?

There's stuff MC was doing that isn't right and it didn't have to do with protecting their cardholders.

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
I agree with that for the most part. I've always thought that.

But did you read the actual complaint Epoch filed?

There's stuff MC was doing that isn't right and it didn't have to do with protecting their cardholders.

Like what?

I read it, and would be interested in what you are referring to.

FATPad · 06-10-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nevermind

Like what?

I read it, and would be interested in what you are referring to.

When the card database was hacked and 13 million numbers were compromised. MC refused to provide anyone with the #'s so sales involving those cards could be refused.

You can't say you're going to allow chargebacks for stolen cards, and refuse to supply a list of known cards that could be compromised.

I'll go look through the whole thing again. Mastercard spies are such pains. :P

sextoyking · 06-10-2003, 06:17 PM

You shouldn't have to pay a fine and go over your 1% because of returns and credits to a customer(s) Credit cards.

It's a catch 22. Cancel and credit a card, or get a CB, same response from MC

nevermind · 06-10-2003, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
When the card database was hacked and 13 million numbers were compromised. MC refused to provide anyone with the #'s so sales involving those cards could be refused.

You can't say you're going to allow chargebacks for stolen cards, and refuse to supply a list of known cards that could be compromised.

I'll go look through the whole thing again. Mastercard spies are such pains. :P

Well, that's a good point.

But remember that the hacked database wasn't discovered until February of 2003. (p.13)

By then, Epoch had completely screwed up their relationship with Mastercard after falling out of compliance for a good part of 2001-2002.

It's not crazy to assume that they wouldn't want to hand over a database of stolen credit cards to a company that had repeatedly violated their rules in the past.

Maybe it was a matter of trust ... or lack thereof.

FATPad · 06-10-2003, 06:26 PM

Maybe. But it's not very fair either. If MC was so unhappy with Epoch they should have terminated the relationship instead of setting Epoch and other processors up to accept stolen cards then nailing them with fines for accepting stolen cards.

I also don't think that MC should be forced to change it's business model. The TicketMaster example was good.

MC is saying Ticketmaster can operate one way in that they merely sell access to a venue, but is at the same time saying Epoch cannot do the same.

I know that Epoch needs to do some sort of control and remove shitty sites that deliver shit and leave the consumer feeling ripped off leading to excessive credits and chargebacks, but they shouldn't be forced to change their entire business structure.

FATPad · 06-10-2003, 06:29 PM

Charging higher transaction fees and such and claiming the higher rates are necessary due to the fact that internet merchants are more prone to fraud, then making online merchants bear ALL the cost of the fraud is pretty weak, too. ;)

I'm not saying MC and VISA are evil or anything. I do agree that they are looking out for their cardholders and a good portion of why they do things is because of what the adult industry used to allow...but some of the stuff MC did was wrong.

Mr.Fiction · 06-10-2003, 06:30 PM

At least they're letting people know what's going on.

Hopefully they will win their lawsuit and make the CC companies make some positive changes.

wonton · 06-10-2003, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elephant_Gut
Well hopefully Epoch makes it through okay and can resume their regular payments. But I dunno. Not a good sign...

I also find it ironic about all the negative posts against Verotel and Glo-bill recently, mostly rumor mongering. My Verotel and Glo-bill checks continue to arrive on time, like clockwork, knock on wood. Meanwhile, iBill, Epoch and Jettis all get fined up the wazoo and now Epoch is having 'cashflow' problems.

But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em!

Agree with your reference to Verotel and Glo-Bill. In the past few weeks the haters were bashing 'em with unsubstantiated rumors and conjecture about this or that compliance issue. The only companies definitely out of compliance are those that are getting fucking FINED. And it seems that chargebacks are what's doing it: iBill, Epoch, Jettis, Websitebilling....the list goes on.

As long as webmasters continue to want to hide rebilling in tiny print, and screw over the user and as long as major processors allow that, Visa/MC are just going to continue to smash our industry.

What will we tell our grandchildren when there is no porn industry left for them to inherit?

06-10-2003, 04:27 PM	#1
nevermind Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 276	Epoch Cash Flow Problems? Dear Valued Client: As you may be aware, MasterCard fined Paycom $1.5 million several weeks ago. Our bank held funds from subsequent settlement proceeds at that time. Paycom has no plans to pass these fines through to you, as our portfolio was not out of compliance nor should we have been subject to a fine under any MasterCard Fine Program. As you may also be aware, Paycom has filed a lawsuit in Federal court here in Los Angeles against MasterCard for the above and many other issues related to MasterCard's unfair dealings with Paycom. The $1.5 million fine and the cost of litigation has strained our cash flow. As a result, we must adjust payment days from Tuesdays to Fridays, beginning next week. Payments due today, Tuesday, June 10th are being made today. Payments due next week, on the 17th will be made on Friday, June 20th, a delay of 72 hours. Payments to Resellers will not be affected and Resellers will continue to be paid on Tuesday's. We are projecting that we will be able to return to Tuesday payments as circumstances change. We are not projecting any further delays, nor do we believe that any additional fines should be levied. Paycom fully understand that delays in payments are problematic to our clients and a reminder of situations in Paycom's past. You can be assured that those days are gone. This issue is related to the MasterCard fine and the costs associated with the lawsuit. Over the past 3 years we have worked diligently to regain your confidence in our ability to pay you on time, or to keep you informed before a delay. This is one of those times that we all dread; yet it is unavoidable. We want to give you as much notice as possible about this delay, albeit only 72 hours. Clay, Joel and I are asking for your continued support, confidence and loyalty to us and to Paycom. We are working hard and fighting hard for our mutual success. Thank you, Chris Mallick Chief Executive Officer --The Team at Epoch

06-10-2003, 04:30 PM	#2
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	interesting __________________ Up to 35$ per join...!

06-10-2003, 04:31 PM	#4
Martin "Assassins" Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: At home Posts: 17,277	Damn! __________________

06-10-2003, 04:32 PM	#5
chowda Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Gooch city Posts: 9,527	cash flow? who are u Robert kiyosaki? __________________ Someone finds you... 2007 PS: Nationalnet is the best host I've ever had. And i tried alot of them.

06-10-2003, 04:35 PM	#6
sexyavs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 615	Well Im sure if they passed on the fines we are all supposed to pay, there would be 2 days late... Heck Im fine with it.. Keep fighting it epoch.. Chris __________________ <br> <a href="http://www.sexypassport.com/webmaster/webmaster.php?siteid=752359">Join the Highest Paying FREE AVS. </a><br> <a href="http://nakedpass.com/webmaster/webmaster.php">Naked Pass New FREE Avs Also Pays $20.00 Per FREE Signup!! </a><br> Have you checked out <a href="http://makefuckingmoney.com">Make Fucking Money!</a> Get Paid on FREE Memberships!

06-10-2003, 04:31 PM	#3
Juicy D. Links So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: N.Y. -Long Island -- Posts: 122,992

06-10-2003, 04:37 PM	#7
mpegposter Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tri-State Posts: 483	Yep just got that also. You try litigating a multi billion dollar a year business (that's just their PROFIT margins) and take million dollar aribitrary fines and see how it goes. __________________ The voice of the Moral Minority. New Sponsor Converting Like Hell!

06-10-2003, 04:44 PM	#9
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	I saw the first two words of this thread and got nervous... __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

06-10-2003, 04:45 PM	#10
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	another one bytes the dust

06-10-2003, 04:48 PM	#12
nevermind Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 276	A very good friend of mine is an antitrust lawyer, and he says that antitrust cases are extremely expensive to litigate -- even more so than regular lawsuits --- and very difficult to prove. I'm not surprized that they're not passing on the fines to webmasters because, their lawsuit states that in some cases, they can't pass on the fines even if they wanted to. Last edited by nevermind; 06-10-2003 at 04:51 PM..

06-10-2003, 04:50 PM	#14
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	I dont use them but the fact that a) they annonce a payment delay in advance b) its a small delay I wouldnt worry The one thing that all companies that went bust had in commom was they had "no communication" if you use a company and you get no communications and there is a problem run as fast as you can. I remember one even bullshitted they had a gag order LMAO Good luck epoch with the lawsuit __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076 Last edited by EscortBiz; 06-10-2003 at 04:52 PM..

06-10-2003, 04:54 PM	#16
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	I'm sticking with Epoch, they've always come thru tough times in the past with flying colors and they're smart enough to keep the boat afloat.

06-10-2003, 04:55 PM	#17
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,381	Good for them , they are here informing people instead of hiding.A lot of other companys should take note! __________________ Sig Spot Available –contact JFK @ FUBARWebmasters.com FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

06-10-2003, 05:02 PM	#20
Triple 6 Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: isN'T everything Posts: 5,394	fuck epoch. maybe they are getting fined cuz how they dick their customers around? hmmmm i jus dont know. __________________ SIG TOO SMALL! Maximum 1200x600 button and no more than 30 text lines of ALL SIZES and COLORS. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 6240x4800 instead of a 1024x800.

06-10-2003, 05:06 PM	#22
nevermind Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 276	Antitrust cases are very difficult to prove (not to mention expensive) because you have to convince the court that a different marketplace would exist without the alleged monopoly, in this case Mastercard. So it's not like a regular court case where you gather evidence about WHAT happened and prove that to the court. In an antitrust case you have to try to prove what WOULD happen if Mastercard wasn't around, but there's no hard evidence because it's all theory --- not documented facts that happened in the past. Not to say it can't be done, but it's much more difficult and expensive.

06-10-2003, 05:10 PM	#23
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,016	LOL nevermind, I'll give you credit, you just love to pick at anything you think might be a sore. I'm amazed that your friend the lawyer stuck with a suit for ten years, since most lawsuits are settled well in advance of ten years, what's the case about, I'd like to have a look at it?

06-10-2003, 05:11 PM	#24
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	Say what you want about ibill but they pay on time. lol

06-10-2003, 05:16 PM	#26
Serge_Oprano So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 9,820	Epoch, you are doing it wrong!!! you should: 1) be quite about it 2) don't answer phone calls 3) get to the bank in the middle of the nite and withdraw all the money they hold 4) change your name to LikeEpoch! ;-))))

06-10-2003, 05:19 PM	#28
Anthony_A Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,219	No Kimmy, he was busy paying his 350 bucks to ACPays to worry about reading that other ppl were fined too. __________________ PAYBUYNET.COM Need Processing? Email me tony at paybuynet dot com ICQ 21239908

06-10-2003, 05:28 PM	#31
sexyavs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 615	Hey Porn Dollar I like your program.. You guys take opt in emails? Chris __________________ <br> <a href="http://www.sexypassport.com/webmaster/webmaster.php?siteid=752359">Join the Highest Paying FREE AVS. </a><br> <a href="http://nakedpass.com/webmaster/webmaster.php">Naked Pass New FREE Avs Also Pays $20.00 Per FREE Signup!! </a><br> Have you checked out <a href="http://makefuckingmoney.com">Make Fucking Money!</a> Get Paid on FREE Memberships!

06-10-2003, 05:41 PM	#35
Elephant_Gut Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 70	Well hopefully Epoch makes it through okay and can resume their regular payments. But I dunno. Not a good sign... I also find it ironic about all the negative posts against Verotel and Glo-bill recently, mostly rumor mongering. My Verotel and Glo-bill checks continue to arrive on time, like clockwork, knock on wood. Meanwhile, iBill, Epoch and Jettis all get fined up the wazoo and now Epoch is having 'cashflow' problems. But Visa and Mastercard are the real villains here. They are using their God-like powers to just single out and stomp on an enitre industry. Screw 'em! __________________ Elephant Gut Yes I got a big Gut Now Screw off!

06-10-2003, 06:17 PM	#45
sextoyking Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, OR. Posts: 6,034	You shouldn't have to pay a fine and go over your 1% because of returns and credits to a customer(s) Credit cards. It's a catch 22. Cancel and credit a card, or get a CB, same response from MC __________________ ICQ: 52344098 -------------------------------------- 50% Commissions on all Product Sales. http://www.wishing.com/money

06-10-2003, 06:26 PM	#47
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Maybe. But it's not very fair either. If MC was so unhappy with Epoch they should have terminated the relationship instead of setting Epoch and other processors up to accept stolen cards then nailing them with fines for accepting stolen cards. I also don't think that MC should be forced to change it's business model. The TicketMaster example was good. MC is saying Ticketmaster can operate one way in that they merely sell access to a venue, but is at the same time saying Epoch cannot do the same. I know that Epoch needs to do some sort of control and remove shitty sites that deliver shit and leave the consumer feeling ripped off leading to excessive credits and chargebacks, but they shouldn't be forced to change their entire business structure. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

06-10-2003, 06:29 PM	#48
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	Charging higher transaction fees and such and claiming the higher rates are necessary due to the fact that internet merchants are more prone to fraud, then making online merchants bear ALL the cost of the fraud is pretty weak, too. ;) I'm not saying MC and VISA are evil or anything. I do agree that they are looking out for their cardholders and a good portion of why they do things is because of what the adult industry used to allow...but some of the stuff MC did was wrong. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

06-10-2003, 06:30 PM	#49
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,476	At least they're letting people know what's going on. Hopefully they will win their lawsuit and make the CC companies make some positive changes.