Why processors close down? - GoFuckYourself.com

Bear · 07-28-2003, 07:06 PM

Globill and acpay close down. Both of them saying something like "due to pressure from Visa/Mastercard". But what is that pressure? Charge back ratio to 1% or Visa/MC ask the bank not to process them?

If it's pressure from Visa/Mastercard, I just afraid it might affect other existing processors as well. Since the business enivornment getting harder and harder. Will they also close down due to " pressure from Visa/Mastercard"?

Acpay and globill were using EU bank to process transactions. Will this thing happen to ibilleu or ccbilleu? If this thing can happen to AC and globill, why can't happen to other big processors? I just so afraid of that.

foe · 07-28-2003, 07:08 PM

go and cry

nobull · 07-28-2003, 07:08 PM

they did not charge the 750 fee and make everyone register with Visa...yes AC/Pay started to do it a month ago, but it was too late

KRL · 07-28-2003, 07:11 PM

Tony said fuck this, the Mob wants the porn industry back.

Merry Christmas!

Bear · 07-28-2003, 07:12 PM

I don't think the $750 fee is the reason. Since only Visa US charge this fee. Visa international not follow this.

icedemon · 07-28-2003, 08:08 PM

I think the EU processors aren't supposed to take in US companies. Apperantly ACPay and Globill were letting US companies us them which was a no no. Visa wants the $750 from every US business for each 3rd party Processor that they use.

gothweb · 07-28-2003, 08:10 PM

The word you are searching for is "loophole". They tried to find ways around the rules, and in so doing they ignored the spirit of the rules.

Webby · 07-28-2003, 08:26 PM

icedemon:

Quote:

Apperantly ACPay and Globill were letting US companies us them which was a no no.

More than a grain of truth in that!

res · 07-29-2003, 12:51 AM

Maybe, it's coz they dont have IPSP status and Third Party Factoring is illegal for Visa ?

mryellow · 07-29-2003, 01:11 AM

OXBill, Cardsgate and many people working via ECS were taken down at the same time. Globill went down a few days after them and stated the same reasons. Strangely ACPay also states the same reasons.

If you read carefully you'll notice all of them say that their *bank* was shut down because of pressure from Visa. I was told that Visa had problems with their reporting and requested much more vigorous reporting.

I know of one bank in Romania that was taken down in this manner but I'm not sure if Globill was also using this same bank. Being in Romania and processing for high-risk merchants you'd have to think that this was a once off for a particular bank and their customers. However it could be part of a larger pattern.

For all those that think "play by the rules" or "use CCBill" is a valid response please take into account the many webmasters who are not American and who would need to incorporate in the US to play by these particular rules. We'd love to play by the rules.... but someone should really tell us what they are. As it stands the situation in the US is quite clear now, however the rest of the world is still scratching their heads wondering what Visa's goal is.

Is Visa's goal to force everyone under the legal banner of the US?

Will US corporations be the only entities allowed to run adult sites?

Will Visa present a real and equitable option for EU companies without pulling the rug from under our feet?

Do they want better reporting from EU banks but don't have a way to enforce it without creating this kind of turmoil?

Do they just want us to stick within our own Visa zone?

Do they just want to shut us all down... slowly?

At this stage incorporation in the US is one of the only options that look to have a future for non-US webmasters. There really should be legal options to take in the EU. However to work within our own zone legally in the EU still carries a risk of being shut down from further up the food chain.

-Ben

res · 07-29-2003, 01:36 AM

mryellow, sorry, but where do you get info about CardsGate and OXBill ?

solonline · 07-29-2003, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mryellow
OXBill, Cardsgate and many people working via ECS were taken down at the same time. Globill went down a few days after them and stated the same reasons. Strangely ACPay also states the same reasons.

If you read carefully you'll notice all of them say that their *bank* was shut down because of pressure from Visa. I was told that Visa had problems with their reporting and requested much more vigorous reporting.

I know of one bank in Romania that was taken down in this manner but I'm not sure if Globill was also using this same bank. Being in Romania and processing for high-risk merchants you'd have to think that this was a once off for a particular bank and their customers. However it could be part of a larger pattern.

For all those that think "play by the rules" or "use CCBill" is a valid response please take into account the many webmasters who are not American and who would need to incorporate in the US to play by these particular rules. We'd love to play by the rules.... but someone should really tell us what they are. As it stands the situation in the US is quite clear now, however the rest of the world is still scratching their heads wondering what Visa's goal is.

Is Visa's goal to force everyone under the legal banner of the US?

Will US corporations be the only entities allowed to run adult sites?

Will Visa present a real and equitable option for EU companies without pulling the rug from under our feet?

Do they want better reporting from EU banks but don't have a way to enforce it without creating this kind of turmoil?

Do they just want us to stick within our own Visa zone?

Do they just want to shut us all down... slowly?

At this stage incorporation in the US is one of the only options that look to have a future for non-US webmasters. There really should be legal options to take in the EU. However to work within our own zone legally in the EU still carries a risk of being shut down from further up the food chain.

-Ben

Some valid points raised in this post.
We have UUS incorp, but we were an EU company and would have liked to stay as such, but could not take the gamble.

Imagane a world where there was a valid alternate payment option usable by the same number of people with credit cards.
Its seems more and more likly that we are going to have to find those "loop holes" to maintain any kind of business model
And sooner or later the powers that be, will discover these and close them down.

We sit in the office daily scrating our heads, trying to work a way to bill without visa. Simple truth right now, they aint a viable alternate.

Kimmykim · 07-29-2003, 02:31 AM

European companies absolutely have the option of using an EU processor; American companies do not.

Cross border acquisition is not something newly prohibited, however it's strenuous enforcement is new.

Of course people were warned in October of last year how the new rules were supposed to be applied -- it would seem that the loose interpretation that some took with it proved to be the wrong interpretation.

solonline · 07-29-2003, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
European companies absolutely have the option of using an EU processor; American companies do not.

Cross border acquisition is not something newly prohibited, however it's strenuous enforcement is new.

Of course people were warned in October of last year how the new rules were supposed to be applied -- it would seem that the loose interpretation that some took with it proved to be the wrong interpretation.

Yes I agree they are euro options, but very limited, and the list of european ccprocessors hitting the wall is getting longer.
sure this is down to either their bank saying game up. or the billers not adhearing to the rules.
The list of fully compliant eurpoean 3rd partys is getting smaller. and of some of those that exsist we have heard horror stories.

These days if anyone could come up with a solid legal option that would allow me to trade and concentrate on what we do best "selling memberships" I would happily give them a partnership.

Any offers ?

scooby doo as scooby does · 07-29-2003, 07:14 AM

There is an additional problem for EU companies, how do you tell which IPSP's in your region are compliant and following VISA web site registration rules etc. ? In the US region it's pretty obvious, they charge $750. In the EU region this is not required for compliance which makes it almost impossible to tell. You can ask, but every processor that's gone down the toilet has said they are compliant, can you trust the reply ? The only EU processor that obviously seems to be in compliance appears to be CCBillEU, and then only because of their US presence 'doing the right thing'. To my mind, in the EU you have a choice of one. CCBillEU.

artware · 07-29-2003, 08:05 AM

Hi there,

Jettis is in a similar situation as CCBill: they have a US and a EU branch, and US webmasters need to register/pay the fee (although I think Jettis actually eats the fee).

And I think the same goes for Ibill?

For other EU billers, I would say that if they would accept a US webmaster without having to pay $750 and registering, they are breaking VISA's cross-border regulations. (Whether or not VISA EU enforces those rules right now is not relevant).

So as a quick test one could ask them about that, and if they accept US webmasters without registration I would stay far, far away from them.

Greetings,

Art

mryellow · 07-29-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

mryellow, sorry, but where do you get info about CardsGate and OXBill ?

We had only just got up and running using a merchant account
with the same bank. It got shutdown without even our gateway
provider hearing it coming.

From where I stand it looks very much like all these companies
were using the same bank.

However the question still remains.... Were they infact all using
the same bank? Is this just one bank that has been hit or is it
part of a larger plan by Visa? Does anyone know details of which
banks any of these companies used?

If it was just one bank that had shitty reporting then I can see
this not becoming too much of a problem in future as long as the
banks keep a clean nose. However if it was multiple banks then
this could be a more sinister and prolonged problem.

-Ben

Snailey · 07-29-2003, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mryellow
....
Will US corporations be the only entities allowed to run adult sites?
....

Sooner than you think .

detoxed · 07-29-2003, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Snailey

Sooner than you think .

lol

giverespect · 07-29-2003, 06:26 PM

I would stiick with the Euro processors..
http://www.shibe.com

mryellow · 07-30-2003, 04:58 PM

Add Dutchbilling.com to the list. If they were with a different bank then this is starting to look quite bad for all non-US processors.

-Ben

07-28-2003, 07:06 PM	#1
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	Why processors close down? Globill and acpay close down. Both of them saying something like "due to pressure from Visa/Mastercard". But what is that pressure? Charge back ratio to 1% or Visa/MC ask the bank not to process them? If it's pressure from Visa/Mastercard, I just afraid it might affect other existing processors as well. Since the business enivornment getting harder and harder. Will they also close down due to " pressure from Visa/Mastercard"? Acpay and globill were using EU bank to process transactions. Will this thing happen to ibilleu or ccbilleu? If this thing can happen to AC and globill, why can't happen to other big processors? I just so afraid of that.

07-28-2003, 07:08 PM	#3
nobull Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,256	they did not charge the 750 fee and make everyone register with Visa...yes AC/Pay started to do it a month ago, but it was too late __________________ NOREBILLS -- MAKE CASH NOW WITH THE NEWEST IDEA IN ONLINE PORN!

07-28-2003, 07:11 PM	#4
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	Tony said fuck this, the Mob wants the porn industry back. Merry Christmas! __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

07-28-2003, 08:08 PM	#6
icedemon Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lutz, FL Posts: 1,023	I think the EU processors aren't supposed to take in US companies. Apperantly ACPay and Globill were letting US companies us them which was a no no. Visa wants the $750 from every US business for each 3rd party Processor that they use. __________________ Clips4Sale.com

07-28-2003, 08:10 PM	#7
gothweb Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Back in the USSA Posts: 8,849	The word you are searching for is "loophole". They tried to find ways around the rules, and in so doing they ignored the spirit of the rules. __________________ Photos by Ian X.: Distinctive photos of goth babes. Blood Money:Your traffic, my sites, our money. MojoHost: Still the best.

07-28-2003, 07:08 PM	#2
foe Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Posts: 5,246	go and cry

07-28-2003, 07:12 PM	#5
Bear Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 261	I don't think the $750 fee is the reason. Since only Visa US charge this fee. Visa international not follow this.

07-29-2003, 12:51 AM	#9
res Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 1,118	Maybe, it's coz they dont have IPSP status and Third Party Factoring is illegal for Visa ?

07-29-2003, 01:11 AM	#10
mryellow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 934	OXBill, Cardsgate and many people working via ECS were taken down at the same time. Globill went down a few days after them and stated the same reasons. Strangely ACPay also states the same reasons. If you read carefully you'll notice all of them say that their bank was shut down because of pressure from Visa. I was told that Visa had problems with their reporting and requested much more vigorous reporting. I know of one bank in Romania that was taken down in this manner but I'm not sure if Globill was also using this same bank. Being in Romania and processing for high-risk merchants you'd have to think that this was a once off for a particular bank and their customers. However it could be part of a larger pattern. For all those that think "play by the rules" or "use CCBill" is a valid response please take into account the many webmasters who are not American and who would need to incorporate in the US to play by these particular rules. We'd love to play by the rules.... but someone should really tell us what they are. As it stands the situation in the US is quite clear now, however the rest of the world is still scratching their heads wondering what Visa's goal is. Is Visa's goal to force everyone under the legal banner of the US? Will US corporations be the only entities allowed to run adult sites? Will Visa present a real and equitable option for EU companies without pulling the rug from under our feet? Do they want better reporting from EU banks but don't have a way to enforce it without creating this kind of turmoil? Do they just want us to stick within our own Visa zone? Do they just want to shut us all down... slowly? At this stage incorporation in the US is one of the only options that look to have a future for non-US webmasters. There really should be legal options to take in the EU. However to work within our own zone legally in the EU still carries a risk of being shut down from further up the food chain. -Ben __________________ Cyberwurx Hosting After trying 5 different hosts, I found the best. Since 1997 I've had 2 hours of downtime. Fast support, great techs, no hype, no gimmicks. <- I in no way endorse whatever just got stuck on the left of my post.

07-29-2003, 01:36 AM	#11
res Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 1,118	mryellow, sorry, but where do you get info about CardsGate and OXBill ?

07-29-2003, 02:31 AM	#13
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,016	European companies absolutely have the option of using an EU processor; American companies do not. Cross border acquisition is not something newly prohibited, however it's strenuous enforcement is new. Of course people were warned in October of last year how the new rules were supposed to be applied -- it would seem that the loose interpretation that some took with it proved to be the wrong interpretation.

07-29-2003, 07:14 AM	#15
scooby doo as scooby does Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: A deep dark place. Posts: 314	There is an additional problem for EU companies, how do you tell which IPSP's in your region are compliant and following VISA web site registration rules etc. ? In the US region it's pretty obvious, they charge $750. In the EU region this is not required for compliance which makes it almost impossible to tell. You can ask, but every processor that's gone down the toilet has said they are compliant, can you trust the reply ? The only EU processor that obviously seems to be in compliance appears to be CCBillEU, and then only because of their US presence 'doing the right thing'. To my mind, in the EU you have a choice of one. CCBillEU. __________________ In 1904, Charles Newman-Berry connected two abacus's together using specially enhanced GrapeVine thus inventing the first Internet connection. NEWMAN-BERRY CASH Paying webmaster since 1904 Last edited by scooby doo as scooby does; 07-29-2003 at 07:21 AM..

07-29-2003, 08:05 AM	#16
artware Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 268	Hi there, Jettis is in a similar situation as CCBill: they have a US and a EU branch, and US webmasters need to register/pay the fee (although I think Jettis actually eats the fee). And I think the same goes for Ibill? For other EU billers, I would say that if they would accept a US webmaster without having to pay $750 and registering, they are breaking VISA's cross-border regulations. (Whether or not VISA EU enforces those rules right now is not relevant). So as a quick test one could ask them about that, and if they accept US webmasters without registration I would stay far, far away from them. Greetings, Art

07-29-2003, 06:26 PM	#20
giverespect Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Amsterdamned Posts: 19	I would stiick with the Euro processors.. http://www.shibe.com

07-30-2003, 04:58 PM	#21
mryellow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 934	Add Dutchbilling.com to the list. If they were with a different bank then this is starting to look quite bad for all non-US processors. -Ben __________________ Cyberwurx Hosting After trying 5 different hosts, I found the best. Since 1997 I've had 2 hours of downtime. Fast support, great techs, no hype, no gimmicks. <- I in no way endorse whatever just got stuck on the left of my post.