Re: Verotel and Probilling here to stay? - GoFuckYourself.com

Daymare · 07-31-2003, 07:58 AM

http://www.theadultpress.com/news.php?show=29

I received a response from Verotel and basically it said that they were fine and were in NO danger of being 'next in line'.

I figured I should post here in Re: to my story since everyone is entitled to their side being heard.

In running the piece yesterday I was shedding light on the mood of the industry being paranoid about others falling into trouble being outside the US, etc. But Verotel did give a professional and believable response so in my personal opinion I think things with Verotel and Probilling should be fine.

Cheers,
Daymare

NewView · 07-31-2003, 08:08 AM

Good to hear but what else can they say?

I guess Mr. Zuurbier is not showing his problems to the world

ZoiNk · 07-31-2003, 08:10 AM

They are the next two to go. If you asked glo-bill a month ago if they were one of the next to go, they would have denied it up and down.
ZoiNk

thetrog · 07-31-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZoiNk

They are the next two to go. If you asked glo-bill a month ago if they were one of the next to go, they would have denied it up and down.
ZoiNk

So true. You can't really believe what anyone says these days.

swingerman · 07-31-2003, 08:17 AM

But Verotel is NOT breaking any rules and they don't try to avoid any regulations set by VISA.
Globill was a US company and tried to fool VISA. But VEROTEL?
They don't have to pay the $750 fee because it's not required in Europe. If you sign up with CCBillEU you also don't have to pay it.
I see no reason why VEROTEL should be the next victim...

matulo · 07-31-2003, 08:18 AM

in my opinion, verotel will stay, it not affiliated in any way with fucking VISA US and MC US

ZoiNk · 07-31-2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by swingerman
But Verotel is NOT breaking any rules and they don't try to avoid any regulations set by VISA.
Globill was a US company and tried to fool VISA. But VEROTEL?
They don't have to pay the $750 fee because it's not required in Europe. If you sign up with CCBillEU you also don't have to pay it.
I see no reason why VEROTEL should be the next victim...

Dutchbilling, a company owned by verotel just got axed about a week ago. ACpay (EGS pay) isn't accepting any new transactions, just processing rebills. Glo-bill is gone, so is websitebilling. Guess what. None of those were required for the $750 fee either, now look at them all.
ZoiNk

thetrog · 07-31-2003, 08:29 AM

It doesn't really matter what any company says.

Even some processors who were widely viewed as compliant have turned out to have major problems with the card associations.

You don't know. Nobody knows. It's not like any processor is going to tell you the full story (until, of course, it's too late.)

Hell, even if they are "compliant," whatever that means, Visa and MC can turn on them in a second.

So no one can predict this one.

DJRCyberAVS · 07-31-2003, 08:33 AM

Both Globill and ACPay were really based in the US though and more than likely had additional problems with VISA US... IMO

Dutchillling - different story.... If VISA does not want any connection to the type of content Dutchbilling was allowing through, that's could well be a VISA wide issue and I don't think that's much to do with cross border regs.

Who knows what's gonna happen... it's too unstable to see which ones are being targetted because we ain't got the full story.

directfiesta · 07-31-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZoiNk

Dutchbilling, a company owned by verotel just got axed about a week ago. ACpay (EGS pay) isn't accepting any new transactions, just processing rebills. Glo-bill is gone, so is websitebilling. Guess what. None of those were required for the $750 fee either, now look at them all.
ZoiNk

You can add Yambo to the list...

Verotel · 07-31-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZoiNk

Dutchbilling, a company owned by verotel just got axed about a week ago.
ZoiNk

Just to clarify...Dutchbilling is/was not owned by Verotel or vice-versa.

Quote:

Original message 7/30/2003 to Dutchbilling Merchants
The reason of [Dutchbilling] closure is the affiliation between the type of content provided on the websites where DutchBilling is billing for and the brand VISA and/or MasterCard. Both card associations don't want to have any affiliation with this type of content.

NewView · 07-31-2003, 08:44 AM

The main reason that Dutchbilling cracked was FRAUD done by Russian people.

They knew in March that Russian people are putting stolen creditcards into the system and that the program of Verotel was not tracking them down, so they get CRAZY and put in a shit-load of false transactions. Verotel's lack of respond to this blows the chargeback ration up to 5%. That puts them on the list of Visa USA....

If they reacted that time correctly (in March) to these false transactions .......... So it has nothing to do with an European company using US merchant accounts. Dutchbilling was clearing by Interpay The Netherlands. Of course Visa is telling that they do not want to have illegal content on their brand but the content IS legal in The Netherlands. The program of Verotel sucks. It was very easy to put an hold on these transactions.

Anyway the story is over for them but I think it will effect the complete market and I guess there must be a lot of webmasters now crying out their eyes.

NewView · 07-31-2003, 08:47 AM

Darryl,

Dutchbilling was USING the program of Verotel.

The domainname was registrated by Dutchbilling but they used your software!!

Verotel · 08-01-2003, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NewView
Darryl,

Dutchbilling was USING the program of Verotel.

The domainname was registrated by Dutchbilling but they used your software!!

Dutchbilling was licensed to use our software but it was not configured exactly the same as ours at their request. Also, every billing company has a risk management dept. that monitors trends, patterns and "things out of the ordinary" which in addition to the software catches fraudulent transactions. With that being said there are other factors which can contribute to the "big picture" - contrary to popular belief there is no 100% foolproof system/software otherwise you end up with an enormous decline rate - ask any billing company!

Let's just say that having a trigger happy risk management dept. sometimes has it's advantages. ;-)

spooky181 · 08-01-2003, 01:08 AM

I think the only processors that will fold are the ones don't run their bussiness well etc. A lot of webmasters are just sumizing that Verotel etc will fold due to the Visa issues, there are no facts being statet by anyone.

I use Verotel and certainly hope they don't go the way of Globill but I doubt it as they seem to be very good operators.

Spooky

Carrie · 08-01-2003, 01:08 AM

Does it really matter where a company is located or whether or not they're charging the fee?
No... CCBill could be gone tomorrow if their cb's went sky-high. Any of them could.

It's all at Visa's whim, and Visa isn't done passing down the regulations.

WorldwideWebGuy · 08-01-2003, 03:28 AM

Pretty Funny. DutchBilling wasn't owned by Verotel? Yea Right .... Then why when I purchased a trial membership to a website billing with DUTCHBILLING, was my credit card actually billed by VEROTEL?

If Visa didn't like the sites DUTCHBILLING was processing, and Verotel's name was on those billings using Visa ... then how can you possibly expect us to believe, Mr. Verotel guy, that your ass isn't next in line to be in the fire with VISA?

DUTCHBILLING, VEROTEL, 2 names --- doesn't matter --- one was billing under your name, VEROTEL, & I suspect that your company will (despite what you claim, so you can keep screwing webmasters knowing you're next in line to go under) disappear as did the others.

If I am wrong, I will personally kiss your ass!
YOU CAN NOT BELIEVE ANY BILLING COMPANY to honestly tell you their pending future ---- ACPAY (EGSPAY) knew they were having problems for the last 3+ weeks & weren't billing new memberships (putting them in queue); but they only recently came out of their silence & told webmasters ... oh, hey, guess what ... we're no longer going to continue billing new memberships .... so sorry, but you can transfer your pending new memberships we've been placing in queue to another process (which is bullshit, no processor will touch their pending memberships they've been screwing us out of for the last 3 weeks --- those sales are just LOST).

Lancelot, AdultRated, WebsiteBilling, GloBill, etc etc etc --- they all said they were fine & that there was "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT" (just like you at Verotel) ---- well guess what ... where are they now?

LOL

Verotel · 08-01-2003, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WorldwideWebGuy
If I am wrong, I will personally kiss your ass!

I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that!

Depending on where you are, you may want to reserve your plane ticket now to save on the airfare.

greentea · 08-01-2003, 05:43 AM

Why even take chances nowadays?

ccbill, ibill and epoch are not going anywere.

jimmyf · 08-01-2003, 05:46 AM

Quote:

[i]
Lancelot, AdultRated, WebsiteBilling, GloBill, etc etc etc --- they all said they were fine & that there was "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT" (just like you at Verotel) ---- well guess what ... where are they now?

LOL [/B]

From pass history am inclined to agree with you. I really hope your not right for all the people using them.

Fabien · 08-01-2003, 06:08 AM

Dutchbilling not affiliated with Verotel ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

Master_Yoba · 08-01-2003, 06:51 AM

Go CCBill

TheRedZone · 08-01-2003, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea
Why even take chances nowadays?

ccbill, ibill and epoch are not going anywere.

Oh yeah, Ibill is rock solid....

steffie · 08-01-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Verotel
I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to that!

Depending on where you are, you may want to reserve your plane ticket now to save on the airfare.

I will come along and make pictures he he

greentea · 08-01-2003, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheRedZone

Oh yeah, Ibill is rock solid....

Damn right there solid, they had there problems like the rest of them. Ibill has been around longer then any of them.

Ibill is not going anywhere. There visa compliant, there a public company, they have a LOT of cash flow.... nuff said...

DTK · 08-01-2003, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by greentea
Why even take chances nowadays?

ccbill, ibill and epoch are not going anywere.

Jettis??

jimmyf · 08-01-2003, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheRedZone

Oh yeah, Ibill is rock solid....

Indeed · 08-01-2003, 09:03 AM

My little finger tells me that verotel and probilling will bite the dust pretty soon...

Verotel · 09-08-2003, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WorldwideWebGuy
If I am wrong, I will personally kiss your ass!

I'm waiting...

xdcdave · 09-08-2003, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by swingerman
But Verotel is NOT breaking any rules and they don't try to avoid any regulations set by VISA.
Globill was a US company and tried to fool VISA. But VEROTEL?
They don't have to pay the $750 fee because it's not required in Europe. If you sign up with CCBillEU you also don't have to pay it.
I see no reason why VEROTEL should be the next victim...

Actually.. part of the Visa rules is that you cannot acquire across borders! Verotel is processing for US clients, not just EU. This is against the rules.

Learn before you speak young grasshopper.

farbie · 09-08-2003, 12:07 PM

Not really, you can process in any zone as long as you have an acquiring bank in that zone.

farbie

monro · 09-08-2003, 12:12 PM

Actually.. part of the Visa rules is that you cannot acquire across borders! Ibill is processing for EU clients, not just US. This is against the rules. Learn before you speak young grasshopper

xdcdave · 09-08-2003, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by farbie
Not really, you can process in any zone as long as you have an acquiring bank in that zone.

farbie

Quote:

Verotel is a fully Dutch company with headquarters in Amsterdam. We are not a subsidiary of an American entity nor are we a branch office. We have a very strong position with many European and Asian acquiring banks and are here to stay.

The above quote can be found here: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=172112

They are processing for US clients without charging the US registration fee for Visa and without complying with the new M/C regulations. They are going to either a) stop processing for US clients or b) get an acquiring back in the US dumb enough to process for them (and their clients 9 year old modeling sites) or c) do a glo-bill.

xdcdave · 09-08-2003, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by monro
Actually.. part of the Visa rules is that you cannot acquire across borders! Ibill is processing for EU clients, not just US. This is against the rules. Learn before you speak young grasshopper

uhm... iBill EU is processing for EU clients.. It's a european company with european banking relations.. wtf are you talking about?

Brad Mitchell · 09-08-2003, 12:45 PM

Jeff, I think they're next but not necessarily in that order. Stick with CCBill and Paycom... and in 3 months time you can switch to my new solution

Brad

07-31-2003, 07:58 AM	#1
Daymare Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,674	Re: Verotel and Probilling here to stay? http://www.theadultpress.com/news.php?show=29 I received a response from Verotel and basically it said that they were fine and were in NO danger of being 'next in line'. I figured I should post here in Re: to my story since everyone is entitled to their side being heard. In running the piece yesterday I was shedding light on the mood of the industry being paranoid about others falling into trouble being outside the US, etc. But Verotel did give a professional and believable response so in my personal opinion I think things with Verotel and Probilling should be fine. Cheers, Daymare

07-31-2003, 08:10 AM	#3
ZoiNk Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 2,370	They are the next two to go. If you asked glo-bill a month ago if they were one of the next to go, they would have denied it up and down. ZoiNk __________________ "People can have the Model T in any color - so long as it's black." - Henry Ford

07-31-2003, 08:18 AM	#6
matulo Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 116	in my opinion, verotel will stay, it not affiliated in any way with fucking VISA US and MC US __________________ I don't give a shit.

08-01-2003, 05:43 AM	#19
greentea Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Florida Posts: 6,580	Why even take chances nowadays? ccbill, ibill and epoch are not going anywere. __________________ blunts

08-01-2003, 06:51 AM	#22
Master_Yoba Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Dagobah Posts: 1,273	Go CCBill __________________ WATCH MORE PORN

07-31-2003, 08:08 AM	#2
NewView Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 54	Good to hear but what else can they say? I guess Mr. Zuurbier is not showing his problems to the world

07-31-2003, 08:17 AM	#5
swingerman Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 223	But Verotel is NOT breaking any rules and they don't try to avoid any regulations set by VISA. Globill was a US company and tried to fool VISA. But VEROTEL? They don't have to pay the $750 fee because it's not required in Europe. If you sign up with CCBillEU you also don't have to pay it. I see no reason why VEROTEL should be the next victim...

07-31-2003, 08:29 AM	#8
thetrog Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 157	It doesn't really matter what any company says. Even some processors who were widely viewed as compliant have turned out to have major problems with the card associations. You don't know. Nobody knows. It's not like any processor is going to tell you the full story (until, of course, it's too late.) Hell, even if they are "compliant," whatever that means, Visa and MC can turn on them in a second. So no one can predict this one.

07-31-2003, 08:33 AM	#9
DJRCyberAVS Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WeebleLand Posts: 493	Both Globill and ACPay were really based in the US though and more than likely had additional problems with VISA US... IMO Dutchillling - different story.... If VISA does not want any connection to the type of content Dutchbilling was allowing through, that's could well be a VISA wide issue and I don't think that's much to do with cross border regs. Who knows what's gonna happen... it's too unstable to see which ones are being targetted because we ain't got the full story.

07-31-2003, 08:44 AM	#12
NewView Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 54	The main reason that Dutchbilling cracked was FRAUD done by Russian people. They knew in March that Russian people are putting stolen creditcards into the system and that the program of Verotel was not tracking them down, so they get CRAZY and put in a shit-load of false transactions. Verotel's lack of respond to this blows the chargeback ration up to 5%. That puts them on the list of Visa USA.... If they reacted that time correctly (in March) to these false transactions .......... So it has nothing to do with an European company using US merchant accounts. Dutchbilling was clearing by Interpay The Netherlands. Of course Visa is telling that they do not want to have illegal content on their brand but the content IS legal in The Netherlands. The program of Verotel sucks. It was very easy to put an hold on these transactions. Anyway the story is over for them but I think it will effect the complete market and I guess there must be a lot of webmasters now crying out their eyes.

07-31-2003, 08:47 AM	#13
NewView Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 54	Darryl, Dutchbilling was USING the program of Verotel. The domainname was registrated by Dutchbilling but they used your software!!

08-01-2003, 01:08 AM	#15
spooky181 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: back of beyond Posts: 2,951	I think the only processors that will fold are the ones don't run their bussiness well etc. A lot of webmasters are just sumizing that Verotel etc will fold due to the Visa issues, there are no facts being statet by anyone. I use Verotel and certainly hope they don't go the way of Globill but I doubt it as they seem to be very good operators. Spooky

08-01-2003, 01:08 AM	#16
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	Does it really matter where a company is located or whether or not they're charging the fee? No... CCBill could be gone tomorrow if their cb's went sky-high. Any of them could. It's all at Visa's whim, and Visa isn't done passing down the regulations.

08-01-2003, 03:28 AM	#17
WorldwideWebGuy Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	Pretty Funny. DutchBilling wasn't owned by Verotel? Yea Right .... Then why when I purchased a trial membership to a website billing with DUTCHBILLING, was my credit card actually billed by VEROTEL? If Visa didn't like the sites DUTCHBILLING was processing, and Verotel's name was on those billings using Visa ... then how can you possibly expect us to believe, Mr. Verotel guy, that your ass isn't next in line to be in the fire with VISA? DUTCHBILLING, VEROTEL, 2 names --- doesn't matter --- one was billing under your name, VEROTEL, & I suspect that your company will (despite what you claim, so you can keep screwing webmasters knowing you're next in line to go under) disappear as did the others. If I am wrong, I will personally kiss your ass! YOU CAN NOT BELIEVE ANY BILLING COMPANY to honestly tell you their pending future ---- ACPAY (EGSPAY) knew they were having problems for the last 3+ weeks & weren't billing new memberships (putting them in queue); but they only recently came out of their silence & told webmasters ... oh, hey, guess what ... we're no longer going to continue billing new memberships .... so sorry, but you can transfer your pending new memberships we've been placing in queue to another process (which is bullshit, no processor will touch their pending memberships they've been screwing us out of for the last 3 weeks --- those sales are just LOST). Lancelot, AdultRated, WebsiteBilling, GloBill, etc etc etc --- they all said they were fine & that there was "NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT" (just like you at Verotel) ---- well guess what ... where are they now? LOL

08-01-2003, 06:08 AM	#21
Fabien Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,787	Dutchbilling not affiliated with Verotel ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

08-01-2003, 09:03 AM	#28
Indeed Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,892	My little finger tells me that verotel and probilling will bite the dust pretty soon...

09-08-2003, 12:07 PM	#31
farbie Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 131	Not really, you can process in any zone as long as you have an acquiring bank in that zone. farbie __________________ Frisbeetarianism (n.), The belief that, when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck there.

09-08-2003, 12:12 PM	#32
monro So Fucking Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 787	Actually.. part of the Visa rules is that you cannot acquire across borders! Ibill is processing for EU clients, not just US. This is against the rules. Learn before you speak young grasshopper

09-08-2003, 12:45 PM	#35
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,730	Jeff, I think they're next but not necessarily in that order. Stick with CCBill and Paycom... and in 3 months time you can switch to my new solution Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 69 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999