Welcome to the GoFuckYourself.com - Adult Webmaster Forum forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. |
|
Discuss what's fucking going on, and which programs are best and worst. One-time "program" announcements from "established" webmasters are allowed. |
|
Thread Tools |
06-01-2004, 05:59 PM | #1 |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Since I wrote the Klixxx article I can actually post it here for you now
Since I wrote the Klixxx article I can actually post it here for you now. Clearly the other thread got the point lost.
Anyway, here was the article: Chargebacks You don?t have to be unethical to have chargeback problems. Sparse content and aggressive marketing methods are only two potential causes of chargebacks. The bottom line is that any program doing significant joins has to deal with the issue. There are a number of factors that can cause you to go above the 1% chargeback ratio that Visa allows, including natural attrition, your members? area, webmaster fraud, support issues, cross sells and your price point to consumers. If you want to stay below the 1% mark, you?ll need to deal with every one of these points. The other day I was reading the Terms and Conditions for processing through Jettis and I noticed a clause in their contract that required you to phase out processing over a 6 month period if you wanted to leave them as a client. This is because people rarely get notified each month when they are billed. It is quite common for a customer to notice that they have been getting billed recurrently only after some time has passed. If you don?t send new charges through the same IPSP account over and over, natural attrition of your customer base will put you over 1%. I know of one very high volume and well-known sponsor program that processed through Jettis for years and then switched to Epoch for various reasons. Recently that sponsor has had to start sending charges through Jettis again because they went over 1% by not sending them new joins. Now they will need to go back to Epoch for new joins because they will have the same problem there. What?s the solution? Get your own merchant account and run all of your primary processing through it or rotate two separate IPSPs so you don?t put all your eggs in one basket. Technically, customers aren?t supposed to chargeback fees just because they don?t like the product. However, in reality this happens all the time. Having a great members? area will not only decrease chargebacks but will also increase your total billing! At CJ Bucks, we do everything we can to keep the customers happy including separate members? areas for each of our sites and tons of well-organized content. This may come as a surprise, but there are many fraudulent webmasters! All program owners regularly cancel webmasters for pushing through fraudulent transactions. The frauds want to get a check from you before you?ve noticed so the key is to notice and catch them before you send the check. Most IPSPs will inform you of fraudulent webmasters, but you can always catch more than the processor by taking ownership of the issue yourself. Some methods are easier than others. One easy way to catch the crook is to look at their conversion ratios. If you have a webmaster pushing through joins at 1:3, the odds are that they are frauding you. If you show me a traffic source that converts at 1 in 3 I?ll buy all of the traffic for sale because such a thing just doesn?t exist. A much more difficult technique would be to build a system that checks to see if members login to their members? areas. If a webmaster sends five joins to you and none of those joins login to the sites, odds are that its fraudulent. The bottom line is that you must have a system in place to protect yourself against fraud. At CJ Bucks, we have many, so most crooks look for an easier target. Your support systems can make a huge difference. When a pay site member needs support or chooses to cancel, they have two choices: go to your site and look for support channels or go to the emails they received when they joined the program. Those emails most likely came from your IPSP and contain email addresses, links and/or phone numbers. Your IPSP couldn?t possibly answer questions about your members? area or the encoding of your videos. I know of at least three sponsors who have asked their IPSP to change the information on those emails so that all requests funnel through the sponsor who actually sold the membership. Cross sells are often blamed for the chargeback problem. Again, it?s how you use the cross sells that counts most. Some programs bury in their terms and conditions that the end user is joining more than one site while others use check boxes or even pre-checked boxes on their join page. Clearly there is a middle ground here -- your job, as a program owner, is to find that balance. I prefer the pre-checked boxes, but I leave the recurring monthly price for those memberships at 24.95 or less. I think that hooking someone up with two separate 39.95 a month memberships is just a bit too much, and, besides, the CEO of a major IPSP assures me that many banks won?t chargeback charges of less than 25 dollars. Chargebacks are obviously an important concern of everyone involved in a sponsor program, but the issue isn?t as cut-and-dry as simply offering better content. Of course, when selling an intangible product, it never hurts to deliver above and beyond your customers? expectations, but unless you efficiently shore-up all points of potential chargeback leakage, you still might find yourself running aground with the 1% policy. -------------------- Note: I wrote this months ago and the magazine just got mailed. I've learned a lot myself since this writing and will be posting more thoughts in a minute.
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
06-01-2004, 06:01 PM | #2 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oh Canada!
Posts: 3,662
|
Thanks for posting that
|
06-01-2004, 06:03 PM | #3 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 901
|
very nice read. good job!
|
06-01-2004, 06:05 PM | #4 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,494
|
Great article
|
06-01-2004, 06:06 PM | #5 |
Confirmed User
Industry Role:
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: LA
Posts: 584
|
Well put! That is a well thought out, timely and informative article. Rick, nice job!!
What have you found is the balance between membership price and cross sell prices that work to maximize the join without exposure? |
06-01-2004, 06:08 PM | #6 |
UNSTOPPABLE
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK :: ICQ# 156068
Posts: 11,569
|
Good read, thx for posting it.
__________________
No way as way, No limitation as limitation. AmeriNOC formally PhatServers |
06-01-2004, 06:09 PM | #7 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-01-2004, 06:09 PM | #8 |
been very busy
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: the queen city
Posts: 26,984
|
great read
rick, i need to shoot down there and talk to you in a week or so about something else signup4cash has in mind. whens a good time to come down and where is a nice place to stay?
__________________
want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.
|
06-01-2004, 06:10 PM | #9 | |
Too lazy to set a custom title
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 14,626
|
Quote:
|
|
06-01-2004, 06:10 PM | #10 |
Special Ops Consultant
Industry Role:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canuckstikan
Posts: 22,508
|
I like this article, especially the part about sponsor changing the info in the welcome email... " I know of at least three sponsors who have asked their IPSP to change the information on those emails so that all requests funnel through the sponsor who actually sold the membership."
You and I had a long conversation about this in Curacao and you know my views and ideas on this issue. BTW I still think my idea would do great in this industry and would love to be able to run a test with you anytime you would be willing to... don't need much to run a test you know
__________________
Porn.ai Deepfake.com ai-dreamgirls.com email: [email protected] skype: jean.francois.laverdiere TG: @jman1216 |
06-01-2004, 06:12 PM | #11 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-01-2004, 06:13 PM | #12 | |
vip member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,798
|
Quote:
|
|
06-01-2004, 06:14 PM | #13 |
BACON BACON BACON
Industry Role:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet
Posts: 35,457
|
nice stufff Rick,
comprehensive overview on the issue, lots of nice points in there |
06-01-2004, 06:15 PM | #14 |
Old broad
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Away
Posts: 13,933
|
Thanks, Rick - now I don't have to look at nekkid wimmins to read it
Awesome article!! |
06-01-2004, 06:19 PM | #15 | |
Pounding Googlebot
Industry Role:
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 34,364
|
Quote:
WG
__________________
I play with Google. |
|
06-01-2004, 06:39 PM | #16 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-01-2004, 10:10 PM | #17 |
I'm here for SPORT
Industry Role:
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696
Posts: 41,470
|
__________________
This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog. |
06-01-2004, 10:13 PM | #18 | |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 6,163
|
Quote:
__________________
Coming Soon! A NEW revolution in black adult social networking! |
|
06-01-2004, 10:15 PM | #19 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern Cuba
Posts: 3,358
|
rick u rock
|
06-01-2004, 10:21 PM | #20 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Roger V
Posts: 5,334
|
we will be coming out with a new price point no one has tried, we will launch it with the new pornkings this month. I will keep you posted. had to get Paycom to agree
Always need to think one step ahead our Porn4abuck keeps us out of any chargeback issue's. Knock on wood stay tuned for new and exciting things Good read Rick
__________________
Pornkings.com |
06-01-2004, 10:22 PM | #21 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,534
|
great read
__________________
Buy & Sell Ads on The Most Sexy Advertising Network on the Planet |
06-01-2004, 10:24 PM | #22 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,277
|
I have a bunch of 8.00 cb's
im sure quite a few people do. Also, jettis isnt the only one that wants someone to phase out processing if they leave..thats no big secret. Every processor will do that. |
06-01-2004, 10:26 PM | #23 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Closer than you think
Posts: 9,535
|
Thanks for posting!
__________________
Need Mainstream Content and SEO? SEO * Website Copy * Blogs Blogging - PR Work - Forum Marketing - Social Marketing - Link building - Articles 100% Guaranteed Content! |
06-01-2004, 10:26 PM | #24 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern Cuba
Posts: 3,358
|
you never stop amazing me how smart you are.
|
06-01-2004, 10:27 PM | #25 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: On The Intracostal!
Posts: 568
|
Great read Rick......well written, well laid out and lots of food for thought......looks like you inspired a lot of people to rethink their pricing structure and strategy......nice contribution!
|
06-01-2004, 10:43 PM | #26 |
So Fucking Banned
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: malta
Posts: 12,745
|
There were some good points in that article. I think everyone should read it even if they don't run paysites.
|
06-01-2004, 11:07 PM | #27 |
LIVING LA VITA LOCA
Industry Role:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Internet
Posts: 13,316
|
great article Rick
__________________
MetArtMoney.com - #1 Nude Affiliate Program MetArt CCbill Affiliate Tools 4K, HD, UP TO 50 MEGAPIXEL Mobile & Tablet Support Daily Updates HTML5 Tools skype: adamneve8 ICQ# 174167541 AIM: adineve YahooM: adineve |
06-01-2004, 11:12 PM | #28 |
Hello world!
Industry Role:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,508
|
Excellent read!
|
06-01-2004, 11:24 PM | #29 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,360
|
I must agree a good read!!
Rick is a genuis
__________________
Derek *Dwreck* Smout Program Manager Icq 165976549 Skype derekthomassmout |
06-01-2004, 11:44 PM | #30 |
best designer on GFY
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384
Posts: 30,307
|
I can live with $19.95 a month!
Per member But wooo nelli them webmasters gonna be pinched! Kiss good buy them 50 dollar payouts!
__________________
NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! | The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily | Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 |ICQ: 78943384 | |
06-01-2004, 11:52 PM | #31 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 3,570
|
good article Rick
|
06-02-2004, 12:48 AM | #32 | |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,615
|
Quote:
CSI was infamous for saying "oh, congrats, you're growing! In order for us to continue to process for you we're going to hold onto 100% of your deposits until we have $10K. Once we have $10k, we'll release 80% of your net earnings twice a week. We don't care that you have webmasters, bills, etc. to pay, we don't trust you because you're adult. Oh, you've had another account with us for years? Fuck you, we don't care." |
|
06-02-2004, 05:55 AM | #33 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
Also, I agree that Jettis isn't the only one. It was just their TOS that got me thinking.
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 05:56 AM | #34 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 06:04 AM | #35 | |
FBOP Class Of 2013
Industry Role:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: bumfuck, ky
Posts: 35,562
|
Quote:
seriously, if you wanna be right by their office stay at the Omni, it is right next door...well, almost hit me up when you come though, stay an extra day and we will woop it up again, i promise no jail this time.... |
|
06-02-2004, 06:14 AM | #36 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 06:33 AM | #37 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Ditch
Posts: 8,919
|
Great read. thanks
__________________
www.MAKINGCOIN.com icq. 166-662-831 "Start making large coin!" Daddy I Get Paid To Be A Whore - Coming Soon |
06-02-2004, 06:40 AM | #38 |
So Fucking Banned
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,129
|
|
06-02-2004, 06:46 AM | #39 | |
been very busy
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: the queen city
Posts: 26,984
|
Quote:
__________________
want to buy this spot for cheap? it is of course for sale. long term deals are always the best bet. brand0n/ at/ a o l dot commies.
|
|
06-02-2004, 06:57 AM | #40 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 1,491
|
Chargebacks occur at FDR (First Data) for less than $25.00. First data currently does the large bulk of all IPSP business, although that is set to change here very soon. CCBill does not run their charges through FDR but they too have chargebacks for less than $25.00
Upselling, whenever there will be multiple charges from the same source on a credit card gets extra scrutiny from the consumer and the banks. Be it cross-selling, or upselling within the member's area the level of chargebacks is always higher with these products. You have to have a strong product behind them backed with good customer service or you will quickly butt up againt 1% if you push any real volume. I have been told in the past by a few different folks high up in the IPSP chain of command that chargebacks increase incrementally by the raise in pricing point. With the exact same product you will see higher chargebacks the higher your price point. Many IPSPs will not take charges over $50 as they have found that consumers "see" those charges alot more than usual and the visibility results in significantly higher chargebacks. That was a very informative read Rick, too bad instead of reading it yesterday we instead had to take that 5 hr detour through mudfields to get here. GFY needs it drama I guess. |
06-02-2004, 07:03 AM | #41 |
Too lazy to set a custom title
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Writer for hire :) Gallery descriptions, articles, blog posts etc. ICQ: 209 356 106
Posts: 12,117
|
good read
__________________
80% Revshare or 30$ PPS on $1 trials: 200 Niches = Vidz.com Galleries / FLVs / Embeds
3 & 5mins FLVs | RSS & Tube Feeds | Matching Thumbs | FLV Browser & Exporter | No Prechecked Xsales >> Mobile Redirection Script: mobile.vidz.com also paying 80% net Lifetime << ICQ: 198-394-557 |
06-02-2004, 08:52 AM | #42 | |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Marina del Rey, CA, USA
Posts: 679
|
Quote:
Nice article Rick! |
|
06-02-2004, 08:55 AM | #43 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 1,277
|
Rick, interesting article. I have seen many strong tough individuals brought to their knees by chargebacks. Chargebacks are not new to the porn industry or the internet. Many of those who got their start in the *900* phone business went out of business due to excessive chargebacks.
I have never heard of one bank who didn't issue chargebacks simply because the membership fee was low. In fact, I know webmasters who got into chargeback hell charging only $9.95 a month. There are too many wimps and crooks who want to get something for nothing, even if it means calling their banks and lying through their teeth. Are you suggesting the answer is to use your own personal merchant's account? How many people do you know who have the kind of credit necessary to do this? Why would anyone want to use their own account when dealing with dishonest porn webmasters and scuzzy members (mostly young white men) who have no intention of paying a membership fee? |
06-02-2004, 08:57 AM | #44 |
FUBAR the ORIGINATOR
Industry Role:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: FUBARLAND
Posts: 67,381
|
Thanks Rick , I actually read the magazine last nite
__________________
Sig Spot Available –contact JFK @ FUBARWebmasters.com FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com |
06-02-2004, 09:39 AM | #45 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 09:49 AM | #46 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 1,277
|
Chris & Rick, where does one find this statistical information about bank chargebacks? I would like for it to be true, but that has not been my experience. I think a valid reference regarding this information would be valuable to all of us. Right now, it is just a casual comment coming from a webmaster.
|
06-02-2004, 09:56 AM | #47 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 10:02 AM | #48 |
Confirmed User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 1,277
|
"I think the point is that the percentage drops drastically, if the price point is at that or lower. The more you charge, the more you are at risk."
Rick, wouldn't you think that webmasters would have realized that charging outlandish fees like $39.95 for a monthly membership was way out of line? I stopped joining sites when the price went over $14.95. Nothing is worth it. I'm not that familiar with you and your websites, but didn't you charge those same high fees? Show me one webmaster who really cares about his members. Everyone is out for a buck no matter who gets hurt. The porn industry needs to be shaken up. There are far too many lowlife idiots who don't give a damn. |
06-02-2004, 10:05 AM | #49 | |
The Best Ideas Start Here
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 6,037
|
Quote:
__________________
Regards, Rick Latona http://latonas.com Latona's - We Sell Money Making Web Properties Note to buyers of websites and traffic: please check our inventory at http://latonas.com/websites-for-sale. If you would like to make an offer on something, just let me know. |
|
06-02-2004, 10:16 AM | #50 |
Push Porn Like Weight.
Industry Role:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Inside .NET
Posts: 10,652
|
that's a great read rick thanks! you always bring good buisness oriented posts here. a rarity, but not an un-appreciated one.
thanks!
__________________
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. |