Arrested for illegal content!!!

[PornPimp]

Here's something to discuss. If your a website owner and you bought content from a content producer that produced the content illegally such as producing content in a country that doesn't allow it, or producing content of an underaged model can you be held liable for it because the content is on your website? Lets say all documents were provided to you by the content producer and you thought that the content purchased was legal.

[freeadultcontent]

Take such question and ask it to your lawyer on wed.

[PornPimp]

Originally posted by freeadultcontent
Take such question and ask it to your lawyer on wed.

well i'm asking it here

[{fusion}]

you would be fucked. always get the docs

[PornPimp]

Originally posted by {fusion}
you would be fucked. always get the docs

what if documents were provided.

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally posted by PornPimp
what if documents were provided.

I think it would be a case of "Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law"

[steffie]

If you have the documents you purchased content in good faith. Meaning you purchased content with proof that the model is at consenting age.

You will still face legal battle, however you will win at the end and the ContentProducer is going to have his ass handed to him.

[James Greuel]

You are not going to like this answer

I was at a seminar about 2257 last year. The main speaker was an Attorney who used to be the chief federal prosecuter for the SouthEastern US. According to him, if the model lies to you, gives you a fake ID, and signs a release stating that she is of age, and it turns out she was really underage, it's no defense that she lied and gave you fake ID.

We were all stunned to hear that

The other thing that shocked us is when he explained that if they have cause they come in and take your computer, your records, yur files, your pics your master tapes, your furniture and anything else they can carry out.

The he explained that even if you are found not guilty, they don't have to give your stuff back unless you sue them for it.

Considering how slow the legal system is, by the time you get your computers back they'll be so outdated that they are useless. Oh and if they break them he said that's tough shit.

If you have a problem or think your going to have one my advice is get a lawyer, get a good one, and get one quick. One of the companies I shoot for spent a million dollars on legal defense just to avoid a trail for something one of their shooters did.

James

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by steffie
If you have the documents you purchased content in good faith. Meaning you purchased content with proof that the model is at consenting age.

You will still face legal battle, however you will win at the end and the ContentProducer is going to have his ass handed to him.

Don't take any notice of this reply it's dangerous.

James was right.

Forget about the producer holding 2257 records and being responsible for them it's a lot of BULLSHIT put out by guys who do not want to give you the documents.

Because the only place that will decide you do not need to be the "Holder of Records" is a court of law, yes you have rights and they will cost you $300 an hour for an attorney out of court and who knows how much in court to establish those rights.

As for the girl being under age, you put that on your site you face going to prison as a Pedophile and meeting lots of new friends. Or spending a lot of money defending yourself.

My advice is BUY ONLY FORM PRODUCERS WHO GIVE YOU TWO Ids one being a passport and a model release. Then check the signature on the model release to see if it matches the one on the ID. Check and then check again.

Ask a lawyer and see who is right, me or steffie. Sorry steffie but this is very important.

Yes you have rights, but they will cost you a fortune to defend.

[Webby]

If any other asshole knowingly dumped fraudulent licences on me - they would have an unfortunate life. The tolerance level with idiots has dropped to nada.

As for :

"chief federal prosecuter for the SouthEastern US. According to him, if the model lies to you, gives you a fake ID, and signs a release stating that she is of age, and it turns out she was really underage, it's no defense that she lied and gave you fake ID."

This is a typical instance where the law is a total ass and any prosecutor who, after knowing the true facts, continues to court - they need to find a more honorable job, since they clear don't have a clue about "justice".

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by Webby

"chief federal prosecuter for the SouthEastern US. According to him, if the model lies to you, gives you a fake ID, and signs a release stating that she is of age, and it turns out she was really underage, it's no defense that she lied and gave you fake ID."

This is a typical instance where the law is a total ass and any prosecutor who, after knowing the true facts, continues to court - they need to find a more honorable job, since they clear don't have a clue about "justice".

That has been so for nearly 15 years, ever since Tracy Lords.

Welcome to the porn world.

You have two choices.

Let someone else have the 2257 and hope you will never get a visit.

Or have them and hand them over if you do get a visit, not even that is 100% but a lot better than the first choice. IMHO

Read these for the real info. But remember to defend these rights takes a lot of money.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/w...8cfr75_01.html

http://www.2257.com

[Paul Markham]

I think you should read this page.

Any producer of any book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape,
or other matter that contains one or more visual depictions of actual
sexually explicit conduct made after November 1, 1990 shall, for each
performer portrayed in such visual depiction, create and maintain
records containing the following:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2.../28cfr75.2.htm

I think that covers just about everything we do here.

A producer, someone who produces something. Like a TGP, AVS, website, pictures, videos, adverts, etc. Not a newsstand they do not produce. We hear do.

You want to argue that? Then ask a lawyer what he charges per hour, office time and courth time.

[Paul Markham]

Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available at the producer's place of business. The business address shall refer to a street address and not to a post office box number. Such records shall be maintained as long as the producer remains in business. If the producer ceases to carry on the business, the records shall be maintained for five years thereafter. If the producer produces the book, magazine, periodical, film, videotape or other matter as part of his control of or through his employment with an organization, records shall be made available at the organization's place of business. If the organization is dissolved, the individual who was responsible for maintaining the records on behalf of the organization, as described in Sec. 75.6(b), shall continue to maintain the records for a period of five years after dissolution.

From here

Read and enjoy.

Sec. 75.5 Inspection of records.

Any producer required by this part to maintain records shall make such records available to the Attorney General or his delegee for inspection at all reasonable times.

More

[{fusion}]

good advice charly.

[cold_ice]

Originally posted by {fusion}
good advice charly.

Damn bro very nice

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by {fusion}
good advice charly.

Thanks, we've been 2257 compliant since before 1990. Lived with this situation for decades and second nature to us.

Had a shooter submit an ID picture with the girl holding her two IDs naxt to her face. Her thumb was over her pictures.

How many of you buy from a producer who has the model sign a model release in THEIR NATIVE language? That means, Spanish or Portugese for the Latins, Chinese, Thai, Malay, for the Asians?

We have a Czech model release, translated by our attorney, on all our models.

[prostock]

on the content of it , more then hafe the contentout there sold is made is area that isnt legal
and hafe the stuff made or done in the usa isnt legal ether if you stop and look at the laws in that state .

the matter that is the most care of is the 2257 ether you or him that have , pay mind to charly he knows what he is talking on.

The underage shit i dont care who you are the surfer the maker or the webmaster with it for me i think all should go to jail in that matter of talking

[ModelPerfect]

Originally posted by charly
Thanks, we've been 2257 compliant since before 1990. Lived with this situation for decades and second nature to us.

Had a shooter submit an ID picture with the girl holding her two IDs naxt to her face. Her thumb was over her pictures.

How many of you buy from a producer who has the model sign a model release in THEIR NATIVE language? That means, Spanish or Portugese for the Latins, Chinese, Thai, Malay, for the Asians?

We have a Czech model release, translated by our attorney, on all our models.

I've got a shooter in Thailand who I make get the models sign a Thai and English release...and of course produce valid IDs, which is tougher to find over there.

[James Greuel]

Thanks Charley

The way it was explained, and there is some legal term for it and all that, but basically. Good faith is not a legal defense.

It would be the same as if you get pulled over for driving drunk, and you go to court and tell them that some guys put a gun to your head and made you drink. Maybe they did, but that's no defense for driving drunk, no matter what.

Read up on what really happened with the Traci Lords case. She gave them ID, she signed releases, she lied to thier faces, and hell, she was published in magazines that said she was in her twenties.

None of that mattered when it all went down. Not only did they have to destroy all of her stuff that she was in, but for years cops would cruise video stores looking for one of her vids that got missed and was still on the shelf.

As for good faith. Traci was never marketed as a teen, lolita or anything of that type, she was marketed as a grown woman. None of that mattered when the shit went down.

As for overseas models in content, I would not accept anything except a copy of a passport as proof of age. I also would not buy, or in my case sell content without including a picture of a drivers license, or a passport.

As for anything else including malicious prosecution, hello, it's those guys job, to put guys in jail, and let me tell you folks. They don't like us, they don't care if you got lied to, and they get promotions from putting guys like us in jail. Whether you thought your ass was covered or not.

Wake up, smell the coffee.

James

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by ModelPerfect
I've got a shooter in Thailand who I make get the models sign a Thai and English release...and of course produce valid IDs, which is tougher to find over there.

God man.

I sometimes think very laterally, if I think at all , and one of the things that came to me was the situation with Bush and his "Clean Up The Internet" campaign.

This law is on ths statute and is fairly easy to enforce, the only doubt is whether a website is a first or secondary producer and the 1990 amendment says other matter. I belive on the net most produce a magazine, it's just the delivery that is different. The images are selected, cropped, altered and placed into a publication.

So why hasn't he sent out lots of "Delegees" to push this one home. A lot of sites would fall down on 2257. Even some producers would from what I'm told by some clients.

[xxxoutsourcing]

Originally posted by ModelPerfect
I've got a shooter in Thailand who I make get the models sign a Thai and English release...and of course produce valid IDs, which is tougher to find over there.

As you know Thai ID's are in written Thai and they have a totally differant year structure than the west..
Do you get that translated too? Not many of the girls have passports right..

Just outta intrest that's all ;)

[reynold]

this is a very informative thread indeed!

[stev0]

Originally posted by charly


My advice is BUY ONLY FORM PRODUCERS WHO GIVE YOU TWO Ids one being a passport and a model release. Then check the signature on the model release to see if it matches the one on the ID. Check and then check again.

Yeah, that's one thing i've always liked about buying from you... the ID's and forms come with the content so you have the proof of age on hand.

[pimplink]

Originally posted by {fusion}
good advice charly.

Definitely!

[Paul Markham]

Originally posted by xxxoutsourcing
As you know Thai ID's are in written Thai and they have a totally differant year structure than the west..
Do you get that translated too? Not many of the girls have passports right..

Just outta intrest that's all ;)

I think I remeber, from my screwed up memory, seeing the date of birth written in English when Eva and I were there in February.

I used to shoot there a lot prior to 1990, but after 2257 came out had to stop. One of the best pictures I ever took was of a stunning girl sitting on a rock on the shore, similar to the mermaid in Copenhagen, a large wave had just hit the rock and she was 1,00th of a second away from getting drenched, shot the rest of the set with her wet.

Total fluke.

Got home and two weeks later had a visit from the police, because I was selling/shooting porn. They destroyed the whole set with a lot of other stuff. She had a passport, the documents were perfect the set was worth $10,000 minimum.

Thing is to get my "RIGHTS" and the content back would cost $20,000 and no guaranty of success.

[ModelPerfect]

Originally posted by xxxoutsourcing
As you know Thai ID's are in written Thai and they have a totally differant year structure than the west..
Do you get that translated too? Not many of the girls have passports right..

Just outta intrest that's all ;)

They are in Thai, although the numbers are sometimes in English numerals and the date structure is different. So yeah, I have to get those translated, and I'll reference behind them to make sure...for my own peace of mind.

That's what I was saying...getting IDs period can be a real pain, and in those cases, we simply don't shoot the model. Not many have passportes, but they do have government issued ID cards which are acceptable.

[Kick Ass Chat]

Good reading

[stevent37]

Why is anyone surprised? If you go out to bar and pick up a girl thats underage, even if she lies to you about her age and shows you fake ID. Its still statuatory rape. Itrs always been that way. why would photos be any different?

[vin_cross]

I'm not sure you had your qustion answered properly so I'll give it a go, I've been producing in thailand this last year and I'm moving into the proworld with lfp and pulse.
if it's good enough for the dvd distributors, it should be good for the internet i would think.

[ForteCash]

This is why i only buy content from well known reputable producers.

[elitetec]

I think asking a lawyer is the best soultion. I could say my opinion but it wouldn`t help much.

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by James Greuel

Thanks Charley

The way it was explained, and there is some legal term for it and all that, but basically. Good faith is not a legal defense.

It would be the same as if you get pulled over for driving drunk, and you go to court and tell them that some guys put a gun to your head and made you drink. Maybe they did, but that's no defense for driving drunk, no matter what.

Read up on what really happened with the Traci Lords case. She gave them ID, she signed releases, she lied to thier faces, and hell, she was published in magazines that said she was in her twenties.

None of that mattered when it all went down. Not only did they have to destroy all of her stuff that she was in, but for years cops would cruise video stores looking for one of her vids that got missed and was still on the shelf.

As for good faith. Traci was never marketed as a teen, lolita or anything of that type, she was marketed as a grown woman. None of that mattered when the shit went down.

As for overseas models in content, I would not accept anything except a copy of a passport as proof of age. I also would not buy, or in my case sell content without including a picture of a drivers license, or a passport.

As for anything else including malicious prosecution, hello, it's those guys job, to put guys in jail, and let me tell you folks. They don't like us, they don't care if you got lied to, and they get promotions from putting guys like us in jail. Whether you thought your ass was covered or not.

Wake up, smell the coffee.

James

This poster has obviously been around the block. This one of the few threads I have printed and put in my 2257 knowhow file. Good information here.

Bump for a useful thread.

[Screaming]

Glad I read this thread.

[Manowar]

Originally Posted by elitetec

I think asking a lawyer is the best soultion. I could say my opinion but it wouldn`t help much.

SHUT THE FUCK UP THIS THREAD IS FROM YEARS AGO

[Greg B]

Now you guys know why I only use cartoons. No age checks or paychecks and shit to worry about.

Toons...the future of the web.

[Probono]

Originally Posted by Manowar

SHUT THE FUCK UP THIS THREAD IS FROM YEARS AGO

Is the question or the answers any less valid today?

[Juilan]

Originally Posted by Probono

Is the question or the answers any less valid today?

Point is Elitetec has been bumping old ass threads this weekend and it's pissing everyone off.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by Probono

Is the question or the answers any less valid today?

yes...

Nastydollars got lied to by a girl who was on their Round and brown site who turned out to be underage.....Once it was found out, the content was taken down and all affiliates were instructed to remove the content...

I doubt if anybody went to jail.

[Basic_man]

If the content provider give you false IDs, that's not your fault. You could get in problem, but you shouldn't loose your case.

[CaptainWolfy]

always get the docs

[DWB]

Originally Posted by ModelPerfect

I've got a shooter in Thailand who I make get the models sign a Thai and English release...and of course produce valid IDs, which is tougher to find over there.

Indeed. Lots of fake IDs in Thailand, make sure your guy knows his shit.

[DWB]

Originally Posted by ModelPerfect

They are in Thai, although the numbers are sometimes in English numerals and the date structure is different. So yeah, I have to get those translated, and I'll reference behind them to make sure...for my own peace of mind.

That's what I was saying...getting IDs period can be a real pain, and in those cases, we simply don't shoot the model. Not many have passportes, but they do have government issued ID cards which are acceptable.

BTW.. the new Thai IDs are in English AND Thai. Very cool. I think they made them just for guys like us. :-)

[HairToStay]

Originally Posted by James Greuel

You are not going to like this answer

I was at a seminar about 2257 last year. The main speaker was an Attorney who used to be the chief federal prosecuter for the SouthEastern US. According to him, if the model lies to you, gives you a fake ID, and signs a release stating that she is of age, and it turns out she was really underage, it's no defense that she lied and gave you fake ID.

Really?

Yet Jeffrey Douglas posted on this board within the past month the following (a thread about Met-Art)

"Distribution of child pornography is a crime when it is _knowing and deliberate_. If you distribute a photograph of a model, when you believe in good faith that s/he is 18 years old, but the photographer provided you with false documentation and related assurances, you have committed no crime."

[chupacabra]

it is worth mentioning that filming adult content w/in the Kingdom of Thailand is totally illegal by their laws, so using Thai content on a website and displaying Thai ID cards to prove age is evidence of a serious crime... at least on the part of the creator..

[James Greuel]

Yet Jeffrey Douglas posted on this board within the past month the following (a thread about Met-Art)

"Distribution of child pornography is a crime when it is _knowing and deliberate_. If you distribute a photograph of a model, when you believe in good faith that s/he is 18 years old, but the photographer provided you with false documentation and related assurances, you have committed no crime."

Then I hope Mr Douglas is your Judge, if you ever get prosecuted.

Another poster here made the comment that it's the same as having sex with a minor, even if she lied about her age and showed you a fake ID.

There is no belief, in good faith clause in either case.

Look, the Pros here have told you the way it is, if you think differently, then go pay a really good attorney (like we did) a lot of money, to hear the same thing we're telling you.

As for me, I believe Tod Foster (do a Google, in Florida) that's who I got my info from, and he put a lot of guys in jail over this. I don't know who Mr Douglas is, or his credentials.

[HairToStay]

You're in the adult industry and don't know who Jeffrey Douglas is?

LOL.

I never said I was taking HIS advice, only that your attorney said one thing and Mr. Douglas, who you definitely need to learn about, said something totally opposite.

[Yucky Smurf]

The topic of this thread, and all its replies clearly shows how the majority of the people , here in this forum are absolutely 3rd grade wanna be business people.


you people are pathetic

[Choppa]

thanks guys some very poignant and critical information in this thread

thankyou very much to everyone

[DutchTeenCash]

double IDs releases and a thrustworthy provider or photographer other then that youre fucked either way imho

[Massage Parlor]

Originally Posted by Yucky Smurf

The topic of this thread, and all its replies clearly shows how the majority of the people , here in this forum are absolutely 3rd grade wanna be business people.


you people are pathetic

Don't you want to be your own boss? Don't you want to have lots of money? I certainly do.