My Reply to Zango's mass email about me.

[will76]

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

Some of you may have seen or heard about some very serious charges made by TeamClickCash against Zango and others in a series of web/forum posts over the past few days.

Normally, we would not respond to such accusations by circulating a written communication like this to our partners. In this instance, we will make an exception. The charges are irresponsible and inaccurate. In addition, our efforts to reach out to TeamClickCash to engage in a direct conversation about its (unfounded) concerns have been completely ignored. Most of our partners have worked with us long enough to know that we are a responsible company, always striving to do what?s best for consumers, advertisers, web publishers, and content providers. It?s our hope that all our partners, regardless of the length of their experience with us, will share that feeling about us after reading the following.

Somebody using the nick ?Will76? at TeamClickCash took exception to a specific campaign running on our network. The campaign was run by AdultFriendFinder Media. Will76 witnessed his cookie being overwritten by a cookie placed by the ad. Will76 quickly jumped to the conclusion that Zango is the devil incarnate and immediately launched against us on every webmaster forum he could log into ? this before even bothering to contact us to make sure he understood what was happening.

He should have asked. Overwriting the cookie made us no money. None. Zango had (and has) no incentive to overwrite the cookie. The campaign in question was being run on a cost per visitor (CPV) basis, not on a cost per action (CPA) basis. The cookie was placed by the advertiser.

There is no reason to believe that AdultFriendFinder had malicious intent; it has a long history of being proactive and protecting the interests of its affiliates. In fact, when the potential conflict was brought to the attention of AdultFriendFinder and Zango (at about the same time), AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little.

Once unleashed, however, Will76?s forum rampages started to include any number of false and defamatory claims against Zango, like . . . the software infects your computer, it?s spyware, MySpace is suing the company, we can do anything we want on a user?s computer, etc. These claims are laughable and, to be clear, false. Zango has over 200 employees in four countries and runs a highly successful publisher and advertising business based on our commitment to providing a high value to our users, our advertisers, and our publishers. We did not become the business we are today by cheating people or engaging in unethical business practices. You?ve seen our guidelines and our code of conduct. You know firsthand how careful we are with our publishers and our products.

The ?cookie placement? controversy was one that raised its head somewhat frequently in years past. As the industry has evolved and more individuals and companies gained familiarity with cookies, the issue hasn?t really come up since early 2005. In part, that?s because we publicized the results of a third-party, independent audit we commissioned. (The audit firm, ImServices Group Ltd., is a well-known company in this space, and is the only firm we approached to do the audit. Will76?s assertions to the contrary are yet another example of his inability to state basic fact.) Attached is a copy of the audit firm?s findings, giving us a clean bill of health.

If you have any questions after reading the above, please don?t hesitate to contact me or anyone else here at Zango. An honest discussion between sincere, sophisticated parties is just smart business. Period.

Best Regards,
Zangocash

This letter is legit. I received a similar email and voice mail from Zango a couple days ago. I have no desire to speak to them personally so they can try to explain to me how I am wrong and their software doesn't affect my traffic in anyway. I have been waiting for my attorney to look into this and I am going to let him speak with them, if they feel the need to talk to me again in the future.

First of all, I have shifted away from Zango and I am focusing instead on the sponsors in our industry who are using "adware" to generate sales. We all know how it works. The "Adware" pops up over the ads on our sites and our traffic is diverted to the "adware's advertisers". In some cases the "adware's advertiser" is an affiliate for the same company as you and he hijacks your sales. So my agenda is with the companies using the "adware". I can't change the world, but I will make as much noise in our industry as I can.

I have two agenda's here. To educate everyone who wants to promote "adware" on how it works, and how it affects us as affiliates. Also, to seperate the good sponsors from the bad who accept "adware" sales.

My response to the inaccuracies distributed around the web about me by ZangoCash:

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

The campaign was run by AdultFriendFinder Media. Will76 witnessed his cookie being overwritten by a cookie placed by the ad.

This is 100% incorrect. I do not promote AFF. I did record a video of my ClickCash Cookie being overwritten by a zango advertiser's cookie. So apparently this was happening to AFF affiliates as well.

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

In fact, when the potential conflict was brought to the attention of AdultFriendFinder and Zango (at about the same time), AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little

" Potential Conflict" lol. So it is a potential conflict for AFF to overwrite cookies of their affiliates ? But this happening, and still happening is " much ado about very little ", I guess for the people collecting the money, but that is not how the people having cookies overwritten feel anyway.

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

He should have asked. Overwriting the cookie made us no money. None. Zango had (and has) no incentive to overwrite the cookie. The campaign in question was being run on a cost per visitor (CPV) basis, not on a cost per action (CPA) basis. The cookie was placed by the advertiser.

The more the "advertiser" makes buying traffic from the "traffic company", the more they can charge for said traffic. In this case, the more the "advertisers" make the more they will bid on those keywords. Regardless if Zangocash was making a CPA on the traffic or not, they had an incentive to enable their "advertisers" to make as much money as possible, which in turn would make them more in advertising rates going up. They absolutly benefited from this, even if it was not directly.

It is also my understanding from reading this part, they Zango just said AFF was the one running the campaign in which case AFF's cookies were overwritting their own affiliate's cookie. (we can touch more on this later).

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

Once unleashed, however, Will76?s forum rampages started to include any number of false and defamatory claims against Zango, like . . . the software infects your computer, it?s spyware, MySpace is suing the company, we can do anything we want on a user?s computer, etc. These claims are laughable and, to be clear, false.

Just a few articles on the internet referring to Zango as spyware:
http://www.governmentsecurity.org/fo...hp/t22516.html
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=847 "These are Zango porn videos ? you watch them but get Zango spyware installed on your system."
http://www.castlecops.com/p672607-18..._ZoneLabs.html It seems more antivirus software detects Zango as spyware and Zango is sueing some of them because of this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zango this page use to call it spyware, but it looks like they have changed it recently... interesting.You can google "zango and spyware" and read all of the results for yourself.
Anyone is welcome to also google Myspace and Zango, I thought i read that they were sueing them, not sure if I said that or not, but I have made several referrences to how zango is being distributed on myspace. I also made referrences to how Warner Bros dropped zango because it's search assistant which was bundled with kid's games which were poping up porn sites to kids.
I have never said this " we can do anything we want on a user?s computer " please provide proof where I have ?

Originally Posted by ZangoCash Email

Will76?s assertions to the contrary are yet another example of his inability to state basic fact.) Attached is a copy of the audit firm?s findings, giving us a clean bill of health.

Nice spin there. My biggest assertion was that zango was allowing it's "advertisers" to overwrite other affiliates cookies. This was PROVEN as being true by Zango's own admission that it asked AFF to stop doing this.

Don't worry Zango, I won't be saying your name any more. Like I said I am mainly worried with the adult companies who are accepting traffic from "adware" which steals revenue and traffic from all of us here. If you wish to engage me then you will force me to give you a 110% of my full attention. It's your choice were we go from here.

Back to adult friend finder.

So for those of you who could not put 2 and 2 together. According to Zango, Adultfriendfinder was buying their own keywords and setting cookies over their affiliates, which i can't describe anyother way then stealling sales.

It can't be any more clear as day as that. How does this make you feel ?

[L-Pink]

WoW .......

[LiveDose]

This issue needs to be addressed.

Nice job.

[squishypimp]

sig spot

[Pointless]

if i was zango i would sue will

no doubt

[georgeyw]

didn't even read it all

but i have to say after reading

Will76 witnessed his cookie being overwritten by a cookie placed by the ad. Will76 quickly jumped to the conclusion that Zango is the devil incarnate and immediately launched against us on every webmaster forum he could log into – this before even bothering to contact us to make sure he understood what was happening.

He should have asked. Overwriting the cookie made us no money. None. Zango had (and has) no incentive to overwrite the cookie. The campaign in question was being run on a cost per visitor (CPV) basis, not on a cost per action (CPA) basis. The cookie was placed by the advertiser.

WTF? they made no money? ummmmmmmm how stupid do the people at zango think webmasters are?

Zango, you dirty mofo's, you are making money DIRECTLY from stealing REAL webmasters sales.

[GrouchyAdmin]

Fuck Zango, and I will personally drop anything to do with AFF if I find they continue to advertise with Zango. It's not much, but if we all do it, then Lars will have a few less bucks (and hopefully reconsider).

[Digipimp]

lololololololol

[Pointless]

Originally Posted by toonpornblog

Fuck Zango, and I will personally drop anything to do with AFF if I find they continue to advertise with Zango. It's not much, but if we all do it, then Lars will have a few less bucks (and hopefully reconsider).

your right its not much

you 4 hits of 404 traffic will be missed

[CaptainHowdy]

Damm! One hell of a reply...

[KMR Stitch]

This thread is going to be big =-x But good job will. You have Big ass balls =)

[JD]

i've said fuck AFF from the begining because of shit like this...

[L-Pink]

bump .....

[georgeyw]

did somebody say bump?

[RawAlex]

He should have asked. Overwriting the cookie made us no money. None. Zango had (and has) no incentive to overwrite the cookie. The campaign in question was being run on a cost per visitor (CPV) basis, not on a cost per action (CPA) basis. The cookie was placed by the advertiser.

To me, this is the most bald faced piece of bullshit you will ever read.

The VALUE of a CPV program is based on how well the buyer can convert the traffic. If the buyer cannot make money with the traffic, he will not purchase it or will want to pay less for it. Allowing (and some might suggest permitting or even turning a blind eye to) cookie "overwriting", they are creating value for the buyer, who can in turn pay higher rates for the CPV program.

Without end income, the clicks are worthless. By triggering the popup on a very slight delay (1 second or so) they assure that the popped window will be the last one opened. I am certain that this wasn't their original intent with their software, but rather an unintended feature that made their traffic significantly more valuable to the purchasers. Zango clearly would benefit from this financial windfall for it's CPV buyers, who would bid more for the keywords to keep others out or to overtake the most profitable terms based on their abilities to generate income.

To claim that they are not profiting from this situation seems to be telling less than all of the truth as far as I am concerned.

Alex

[emthree]

Notes please.

[TrafficHog]

You keep saying Zango made aff change something. You keep making untruthful accusations.
"AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little."

You really need to learn to only post facts. I smell a major lawsuit against you. Have you receive a seize and desist yet?

[martinsc]

see sig ...

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by TrafficHog

You keep saying Zango made aff change something. You keep making untruthful accusations.
"AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little."

You really need to learn to only post facts. I smell a major lawsuit against you. Have you receive a seize and desist yet?

It's "Cease and Desist"... and apparently you didn't read the start of this thread

In fact, when the potential conflict was brought to the attention of AdultFriendFinder and Zango (at about the same time), AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little

Take it however you like it.

Alex

[Mutt]

heh - think Legendary Lars will bump this thread?

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by TrafficHog

I smell a major lawsuit against you. Have you receive a seize and desist yet?

i smell a retard in our midst!

[bl4h]

Zango is the work of satan. Zango ruined my life

[scottybuzz]

bumppppppppppppppp

[will76]

Originally Posted by KMR Stitch

This thread is going to be big =-x But good job will. You have Big ass balls =)

everyone reacts differently when they see their sales being taken from them. I witnessed with my own eyes (and later recorded) that my cookie was being replaced by another cookie from an "advertiser" using zango .

I may be pissing in the wind but at least i am not going to just roll over and pretend I didn't see my sales being stolen.

If zango decides to sue me they will have a hard case to prove, since i documented everything and what i can't personally document like calling them spyware , i have thousands of web sites to show how I came to this conclusion. Sure I will lose some money in attorney fees, part of doing business.

I feel i have accomplished a lot so far. I hope people are aware how "adware" affects everyone of us. Not that it is just a pain in the ass from a surfer's standpoint if it gets on our pcs, but it cost us money. I read zango made 50 million in 2004. I am sure most of that was from "advertisers" like aff buying traffic from them. How much do you think those advertisers made? (hint more then 50 million) who do you think those sales would have gone to? Us.

The other objective, which is what i am focusing on now it to identify which sponsors accept this traffic and which sponsors are ethical and do not accept it.

I have no intentions to try to bash zango or even post about them, it will not help us any. Unless someone wants to sue them, the only way we can do good here is to take this up with our sponsors.

[will76]

Originally Posted by TrafficHog

You keep saying Zango made aff change something. You keep making untruthful accusations.
"AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little."

You really need to learn to only post facts. I smell a major lawsuit against you. Have you receive a seize and desist yet?

Don't shoot the messange traffic idiot. I am just relying what zango said. And also what lars told me, which i have logs to prove. so if they want to send that c&d that is their waste of time. moron.

[Jamie]

Interesting post, should be fun to watch

[adultguus]

Nice reaction Will. I totally agree with you. I hope Zango can react on this.

[fuzzylogic]

Originally Posted by TrafficHog

You keep saying Zango made aff change something. You keep making untruthful accusations.
"AdultFriendFinder stopped the campaigns in question and reconfigured them to avoid the potential of having a cookie overwritten or a home page targeted. In short, much ado about very little."

You really need to learn to only post facts. I smell a major lawsuit against you. Have you receive a seize and desist yet?

boy, this user has an agenda, doesn't he?

[tenderobject]

i can only say! WOW!!! so what about sex search? why AFF??

anyways i need to get rid of zango and 180 solutions spyware bullshite ad-aware can't clean my pc. is there a good program to clean this bullshit spyware/malware etc?

[jimthefiend]

I should prolly post in this thread.

[karlm]

Wow thats not good if its true about AFF i will be dropping them and cams.com

[scottybuzz]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - yep if thats true, bye bye aff

[Violetta]

interesting yes

[Lazonby]

Originally Posted by squishypimp

sig spot

Idiot.78

[scottybuzz]

Originally Posted by Lazonby

Idiot.78

You have done the exact same thing as squishy though but covered it up

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by will76

It is also my understanding from reading this part, they Zango just said AFF was the one running the campaign in which case AFF's cookies were overwritting their own affiliate's cookie. (we can touch more on this later).

that's pretty much what zango was saying.

bad move on Zango to have revealed their customer who was running the campaign, usually a confidential issue, and to know that AFF was buying its own space in doing so, took the cookie placement (over writing) from the affiliate is very bad.

on another subject.... so its clear now (and i know many have known this for a while with spyware/adware), that shaving can occur within the affiliate program, and now, clearly demonstrated, outside the affiliate program...


Fight the tissue paper!

[FightThisPatent]

Originally Posted by karlm

Wow thats not good if its true about AFF i will be dropping them and cams.com

i suspect, that even if the allegations are true, and AFF was doing what Zango seems to have admitted, affiliates stick with what converts for them.

Affiliates have been shaved (knowingly or unknowingly) by various programs, and even when they hear about it on a GFY thread, there is always a huff-puff battle, but in the end, they still promote...

It's somewhat like a victim's psychology, that if you know you are getting $500/month, you are happy.. even though you know that if you didn't get shaved, you may have gotten $800.. but you are happy with the $500, therefore happy with the shave, and you continue to promote the sponsor.

AFF/cams.com converts well for many affiliates, thats why they are the big programs that they are... and some affiliates may do the moral thing and drop them due to issues like this, but the majority will just continue on.


Fight the sykoanalytics!

[Lazonby]

Originally Posted by scottybuzz

You have done the exact same thing as squishy though but covered it up

No I didn't because I don't have a sig. Dumbass.

[BlackCrayon]

has aff said anything on the matter yet?

[tenderobject]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

i suspect, that even if the allegations are true, and AFF was doing what Zango seems to have admitted, affiliates stick with what converts for them.

Affiliates have been shaved (knowingly or unknowingly) by various programs, and even when they hear about it on a GFY thread, there is always a huff-puff battle, but in the end, they still promote...

It's somewhat like a victim's psychology, that if you know you are getting $500/month, you are happy.. even though you know that if you didn't get shaved, you may have gotten $800.. but you are happy with the $500, therefore happy with the shave, and you continue to promote the sponsor.

AFF/cams.com converts well for many affiliates, thats why they are the big programs that they are... and some affiliates may do the moral thing and drop them due to issues like this, but the majority will just continue on.


Fight the sykoanalytics!

well said

are there any alternatives for AFF and Cams.com?

[fris]

love how they deny it, just by searching on google for 180 or zango you get so much proof it isnt funny.

[Phoenix]

interesting...i expect some major lawsuits over this

hope no one gets hurt too badly

[wjxxx]

sig spot

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Affiliates have been shaved (knowingly or unknowingly) by various programs, and even when they hear about it on a GFY thread, there is always a huff-puff battle, but in the end, they still promote...

The trouble with having all these threads on the same topic is that they start to overlap. I already wrote about some of my thoughts on the differences between shaving and scumware here: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...&postcount=149

You are right of course and you could have added that most webmasters are incredibly short-sighted, because by turning a blind eye to dubious practises, we actually encourage them. It is possible that collectively we are sending thousands of unpaid sales to sponsors for no other reason than we have encouraged them to believe they can even get away with being caught.

The out-and-out crooks would be trying to stiff us whatever the circumstances, but by walking around carrying signs saying "mug me", I'm damn sure we have tempted a few more to oblige us.

There is another side to this issue which doesn't appear to be making much impression, namely that unlike shaving - which is between a sponsor and his own affiliates - this affects every program owner as well as every affiliate. It can affect sponsors' own consoles. Come to that, since a PC loaded with scumware reacts to keywords and domain names - it doesn't even know the type of site the surfer is visiting - it could affect traffic coming from search engines, clicks on paid-for gallery spots, traffic trades and traffic sales (to and from brokers). In short, everyone handling traffic is affected. It's ridiculous: a link to a content provider or graphic artist's site could trigger popup windows.

In other words this is an issue that everyone in this industry should be on top of, yet while it is impressive to see a topic going into its second week, there are pitifully few people apparently concerned enough to state their position.

[boldy]

I'm handsome ..

[grumpy]

i dont wanna get involved but its almost time i do so. Just hate spyware.

[brand0n]

hey at 40 cents an installl we all can make some good bank

[Fabien]

Can't beleive it Lars WTF were you thinking ?


Turned to the darkside ?
Lars, i'm your father !

[L-Pink]

back to page one ..... bump

[stev0]

He should have asked. Overwriting the cookie made us no money. None. Zango had (and has) no incentive to overwrite the cookie. The campaign in question was being run on a cost per visitor (CPV) basis, not on a cost per action (CPA) basis. The cookie was placed by the advertiser.

haha, thats hillarious.. its ok because their advertiser made money off it, not zango directly? But wait... the advertiser pays zango. What a load of bullshit. I hope these scammers don't last long.