Possible Solution To Torrent Sites

[RonC]

A1R3K

I was reading a post that Raw Alex (very smart guy) made in another tread that got me thinking on how you could stop the Torrent sites. You need to attack them like the Spam Groups did on spammers. They went after the backbone providers (Level 3, Sprint, ATT etc). If you could get 7 out of 10 of the major providers to blackhole them they are dead.

The question is how do you do that?

Simple.

1. You get a group of adult webmasters to file DMCA notices by the truck
load or allow you to file them on their behalf to the backbone providers.
The laws are very specific on Damages and what an ISP must do if a
proper DMCA notice is files. (Be Very Annoying Here)

2. You start sending them URL?s like what Raw Alex showed about Child
Porn. This is a HOT topic and no backbone provider that is a PUBLIC
COMPANY would want to be associated with Child Porn Traffic?

3. Each of the large adult hosting companies have a good relationship
with 1 if not more major backbone providers. We can also put pressure
on their Abuse Departments to blackhole them also due to the
complaints?

I am not sure if it will work but if you put enough pressure on them and the fear of newspapers/major companies finding out about it they will want to distance themselves very quickly from these sites.

Bingo Problem Solved

Ron Cadwell

[Shoehorn!]

Hopefully something will be done soon.

[Shoehorn!]

By the way, whats the best way to get things rolling on something like this? Everyone just start sending DMCA notices, or collect a bunch as a group and send them all in at once or?

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by RonC

A1R3K

I was reading a post that Raw Alex (very smart guy) made in another tread that got me thinking on how you could stop the Torrent sites. You need to attack them like the Spam Groups did on spammers. They went after the backbone providers (Level 3, Sprint, ATT etc). If you could get 7 out of 10 of the major providers to blackhole them they are dead.

The question is how do you do that?

Simple.

1. You get a group of adult webmasters to file DMCA notices by the truck
load or allow you to file them on their behalf to the backbone providers.
The laws are very specific on Damages and what an ISP must do if a
proper DMCA notice is files. (Be Very Annoying Here)

2. You start sending them URL’s like what Raw Alex showed about Child
Porn. This is a HOT topic and no backbone provider that is a PUBLIC
COMPANY would want to be associated with Child Porn Traffic?

3. Each of the large adult hosting companies have a good relationship
with 1 if not more major backbone providers. We can also put pressure
on their Abuse Departments to blackhole them also due to the
complaints?

I am not sure if it will work but if you put enough pressure on them and the fear of newspapers/major companies finding out about it they will want to distance themselves very quickly from these sites.

Bingo Problem Solved

Ron Cadwell

Ron, Alex and I and a few others have been doing just that. I have spoken to many hosting companies, media sources and etc. The ball is rolling.

I am sure you know a lot about this as well, if you have a moment or 3 can you get me on ICQ 436 795 438 and I can tell you more. I prefer not giving out too much info on GFY. I'd love to break down our plans and get your opinions.

I speak with Alex for hours each day about this.

Thanks hope you can contact.

[Cory W]

Great post Ron.

[WiredGuy]

I wonder if this would work against sites like ThePirateBay.org. The RIAA/MPAA couldn't shut them down, they laugh at C&D's from companies like Microsoft. These sites really evade the law to the t, if these major firms couldn't shut them down, I somewhat have my doubts we can do it.
WG

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by WEG Cory

Great post Ron.

Cory you know that Weg is on torrentspy and other torrent sites correct?

[RonC]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

By the way, whats the best way to get things rolling on something like this? Everyone just start sending DMCA notices, or collect a bunch as a group and send them all in at once or?

I am not a lawyer, but hopefully one of the industry Lawyers would shed more light on this. I would guess for a group to send them they would need to be accompanied by a power of attorney. With a little programming I am sure A1R3K's new group could put an online system that could make it very easy to send hundreds of complaints a day to each backbone provider and really put the pressure on them to black hole the sites.

Maybe even some of the industry lawyers could donate a little time to pressure them also with some nasty letters?

Ron C

[pr0]

talk...talk....talk talk talk talk

thats all anyone ever does

& im gettin sick of hearing about torrents

people sophisticated enough to use torrents & get what they want, will always be thieves, can't stop the spread

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by Shoehorn!

By the way, whats the best way to get things rolling on something like this? Everyone just start sending DMCA notices, or collect a bunch as a group and send them all in at once or?

As I've said we have a lot of things in motion, and have made progress on one rather large site.

I don't want info given out here, I speak A1erk and Alex and others daily about this.

Want more info and the plan get with me on icq, for real.

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by RonC

I am not a lawyer, but hopefully one of the industry Lawyers would shed more light on this. I would guess for a group to send them they would need to be accompanied by a power of attorney. With a little programming I am sure A1R3K's new group could put an online system that could make it very easy to send hundreds of complaints a day to each backbone provider and really put the pressure on them to black hole the sites.

Maybe even some of the industry lawyers could donate a little time to pressure them also with some nasty letters?

Ron C

I've spoken with a few lawyers about this topic, and it is interesting.

There are a few steps that can be taken, but it must be done properly and with patients. The main issue is making the right noise at the right time.

[INever]

Can you post a link to a template DMCA notice?

[RonC]

Originally Posted by VG.Content

Ron, Alex and I and a few others have been doing just that. I have spoken to many hosting companies, media sources and etc. The ball is rolling.

I am sure you know a lot about this as well, if you have a moment or 3 can you get me on ICQ 436 795 438 and I can tell you more. I prefer not giving out too much info on GFY. I'd love to break down our plans and get your opinions.

I speak with Alex for hours each day about this.

Thanks hope you can contact.

I don't have ICQ installed on my computer here in Cali. My security guys have a program that on my computer that will not allow me to install anything for fear of keyboard loggers LOL. I will be flying back to Phoenix today and will contact you from the office on monday via ICQ.

Thanks
Ron C

[pr0]

although i've got to say when people like Ron Cadwell start talking about them.....maybe something is about to be done?

good stuff guys....finally getting the notice of people that matter

[PamiebDVD]

I started a thread, back in June, about the decision that AT&T has made about piracy. Unfortunately, the article referenced is no longer available on Red Herring, but here is another write up on it.

While they only reference mainstream movie studios, etc. This might be a good provider to start with. Meaning, they already are paying attention to this.

[Redrob]

Sample DMCA Notice and Cease and Desist Notice for download:


http://www.findlegalforms.com/xcart/customer/home.php?productid=28141&cat=1228&page=1&partner=g oogle

[TeenCat]

i want to see if you will get some replies, i posted totally the same idea about half year ago and nobody even reply ;) anyway its not that easy, if you are running serious legal company, i dont think the best way is to deal with c*p, doesnt matter how

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by RonC

I don't have ICQ installed on my computer here in Cali. My security guys have a program that on my computer that will not allow me to install anything for fear of keyboard loggers LOL. I will be flying back to Phoenix today and will contact you from the office on monday via ICQ.

Thanks
Ron C

Sounds great Ron, and that's a very good thing for them to do.

I've spent the better part of the last month working just on this, before it was just part time, but for me actions set the example, not bitching on GFY.

Have spoken to a number of various news outlets and other channels as well.

And spoken to many hosts about different topics and points of interest.

It's all about making the right calculated moves and making them very effective. The people running these sites are smart, so we need to hit them when they are not looking.

[Eman - PG]

I'm not a layer but I play one on TV. Aren't torrent sites (ie PirateBay) arguing that what they are doing is NOT illegal because they only host the torrent file that has the tracker location with the peers and do not host the actual copyrighted content?

Technically you'd have to go get a court order against the torrent site to release IP information on the seeders/trackers of the content and then go DMCA the ISP and upstream of the person (thousands/millions of them) who are hosting your file for sharing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by RonC

The question is how do you do that?

Simple.

1. You get a group of adult webmasters to file DMCA notices by the truck
load or allow you to file them on their behalf to the backbone providers.
The laws are very specific on Damages and what an ISP must do if a
proper DMCA notice is files. (Be Very Annoying Here)

This is part of the basic idea, is getting everyone who is ready to make a stand step up and be a part. And once they commit they need to stick to it. DMCA's need to go out to anyone involved and enabling them to further their business, attack from all angels if you will. The problem with adult now is it's very hard who to trust, and who is working with the enemy and trying to gain info. It has to be a very selective process in doing so. We have people in place to submit mass DMCA's over and over again if their is no response. It's just a matter of leg work

Originally Posted by RonC

The question is how do you do that?

Simple.


2. You start sending them URL?s like what Raw Alex showed about Child
Porn. This is a HOT topic and no backbone provider that is a PUBLIC
COMPANY would want to be associated with Child Porn Traffic?

I have sadly discovered that a lot of hosting companies that deal in torrents, tube, rapidshare etc turn a blind eye to objectionable and illegal content. They use the "it's user submitted and it's not our place to deal with this." But, at the end of the day they ARE hosting it, and they ARE aware of it, which legally is an issue. Every host I have contacted I've gone to head of the ladder, taken names and etc. If they refuse to do anything after reporting such things to abuse@host name, and then calling and speaking to a top level person it can get ugly for them. I've taken down the name of each person I've spoken to, asked the right questions, their stance and made notes of it all. So I now have a list of names of people who will turn a blind eye to keep making the money. This is part of the process of going to whichever backboen provider they use. If their main network becomes aware of this, and it's sent numerous times it will take it's toll on the host itself.

Originally Posted by RonC

The question is how do you do that?

Simple.


3. Each of the large adult hosting companies have a good relationship
with 1 if not more major backbone providers. We can also put pressure
on their Abuse Departments to blackhole them also due to the
complaints?

I would love to get more adult hosting companies on board, been trying to reach out to them, and it's a slow moving process. I have spoken to a few, but the more who join in the better. But, what you say is a good point and part of the plan.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I wonder if this would work against sites like ThePirateBay.org. The RIAA/MPAA couldn't shut them down, they laugh at C&D's from companies like Microsoft. These sites really evade the law to the t, if these major firms couldn't shut them down, I somewhat have my doubts we can do it.
WG

Swedish embassies based in the US are great places to drop off DMCA notices. Their government not wanting to take action on obvious copyright violation is a real issue, and raising this issue to this level may in fact make a difference.

ISPs and the companies that provide the connections to these sites are very important as well. Working with major peering points to potentially not carry traffic from those IPs, as an example, is another way to gum up the works. Those companies have been very quiet on the issue, but they could act if placed under DMCA notice.

There are many options, many ways to put pressure on the sites and the companies that keep them connected to the net. Mass DMCA notifications on a continuing and ongoing basis is a very good way in my opinion to keep the pressure on them. Failure to take action leaves these companies all open to explain why they have not taken action.

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by Eman - PG

I'm not a layer but I play one on TV. Aren't torrent sites (ie PirateBay) arguing that what they are doing is NOT illegal because they only host the torrent file that has the tracker location with the peers and do not host the actual copyrighted content?

Technically you'd have to go get a court order against the torrent site to release IP information on the seeders/trackers of the content and then go DMCA the ISP and upstream of the person (thousands/millions of them) who are hosting your file for sharing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent

This is a tricky area, but when you are the enabler and you are made aware that you are providing a house for people to do something illegal then you become guilty by association.

It's like saying if you own a crack house and profit from the crack sold there you are not liable because you are not there and are only the owner of the house and renting it to someone else. If you KNOWINGLY are doing something and taking part in it you become liable.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by VG.Content

Sounds great Ron, and that's a very good thing for them to do.

I've spent the better part of the last month working just on this, before it was just part time, but for me actions set the example, not bitching on GFY.

Have spoken to a number of various news outlets and other channels as well.

And spoken to many hosts about different topics and points of interest.

It's all about making the right calculated moves and making them very effective. The people running these sites are smart, so we need to hit them when they are not looking.

One of the other options for ASACP is to help your group by dedicating a resource or two to find/compile all the links like Raw Alex Posted about 14year old CP. If there organization was to put pressure on the backbones to remove these CP/Copyright violating sites that might put the needed pressure on them. None of the backbones are going to want to split hairs about CP.


Ron C

[datatank]

Originally Posted by RonC

I don't have ICQ installed on my computer here in Cali. My security guys have a program that on my computer that will not allow me to install anything for fear of keyboard loggers LOL. I will be flying back to Phoenix today and will contact you from the office on monday via ICQ.

Thanks
Ron C

http://www.meebo.com/

[Eman - PG]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Swedish embassies based in the US are great places to drop off DMCA notices. Their government not wanting to take action on obvious copyright violation is a real issue, and raising this issue to this level may in fact make a difference.

ISPs and the companies that provide the connections to these sites are very important as well. Working with major peering points to potentially not carry traffic from those IPs, as an example, is another way to gum up the works. Those companies have been very quiet on the issue, but they could act if placed under DMCA notice.

There are many options, many ways to put pressure on the sites and the companies that keep them connected to the net. Mass DMCA notifications on a continuing and ongoing basis is a very good way in my opinion to keep the pressure on them. Failure to take action leaves these companies all open to explain why they have not taken action.

First off, DMCA is a US law. Sending a DMCA notice to Sweden or Russia embassies or ISPs won't do anything. For DMCA to be effective against foreign hosted content, you'd have to DMCA their USA peers as the stolen content travels through their US network.

As mentioned in my post above, based on the way the torrent protocol works, the owner of the content would have to send a DMCA notice to the seeders (people with the files on their computer) and their ISPs (ie. Joe Blow in Alabama and Comcast).

In regards to the tracker servers. Trackers are usually hosted offshore and they do not share any content, but only a list of IPs where the source content can be found on the seeder's and peers' computers.

[Red Ezra]

DMCA - PDF

[Eman - PG]

Originally Posted by VG.Content

This is a tricky area, but when you are the enabler and you are made aware that you are providing a house for people to do something illegal then you become guilty by association.

It's like saying if you own a crack house and profit from the crack sold there you are not liable because you are not there and are only the owner of the house and renting it to someone else. If you KNOWINGLY are doing something and taking part in it you become liable.

I don't think it's as white and black as that. If you write a book about how to build a bomb or if you sell chemicals which someone else to build a bomb, are you liable??

That's something that a court would have to decide. Have torrent sites been challenged in court by MPAA/RIAA? Anyone got any articles? IMHO that's why piratebay is still up, because they aren't sharing any content.

[Eman - PG]

Having glanced a the PDF that Red Ezra posted I'd like to make a few corrections to my previous posts.

The WIPO Copyright Treaty (WCT) and the WIPO Performances and
Phonograms Treaty (WPPT) each require member countries to provide protection to
certain works from other member countries or created by nationals of other member
countries.

- Swedish ISPs are not respecting the DMCA because the WCT has only been signed by Sweden but is not yet In Force.


The DMCA PDF states that for information (torrent files/flv files) residing on networks controlled by users (users uploading content) and for information location systems (tna, piratebay etc..) the systems themselves are not liable IF

The provider must not have the requisite level of knowledge that the
material is infringing. The knowledge standard is the same as under the
limitation for information residing on systems or networks.

! If the provider has the right and ability to control the infringing activity,
the provider must not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to
the activity.

! Upon receiving a notification of claimed infringement, the provider
must expeditiously take down or block access to the material.

[webmasterchecks]

Originally Posted by Eman - PG

First off, DMCA is a US law. Sending a DMCA notice to Sweden or Russia embassies or ISPs won't do anything. For DMCA to be effective against foreign hosted content, you'd have to DMCA their USA peers as the stolen content travels through their US network.

As mentioned in my post above, based on the way the torrent protocol works, the owner of the content would have to send a DMCA notice to the seeders (people with the files on their computer) and their ISPs (ie. Joe Blow in Alabama and Comcast).

In regards to the tracker servers. Trackers are usually hosted offshore and they do not share any content, but only a list of IPs where the source content can be found on the seeder's and peers' computers.

why do you got to piss on everyones parade?

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Great post!

It is heartening to see this issue finally get the attention that it deserves.

The group being organized by A1R3K and the rest, has the potential to start turning the tide.

The larger the collective effort the better. This means not just looking out for our own content, but that of others as well, notifying them so that they will hopefully file a DMCA as well.

If GFY does not want to host a specific forum for this, then I recommend a new anti-piracy board be created. It would be good to have separate sections for debating issues, reporting abuse, tips/forms, and tracking addresses for the copyright abusers and their upstream hosts (and making note of those whom fraudulently list such info or do not cooperate).

A pretty good database can be compiled that might be useful in a class action lawsuit of particularly abusive and non-cooperative sites. A scorecard could be kept as well, which would aid in lobbying efforts to enact stricter rules against copyright abuse, not just in the US, but worldwide.

ADG

[Eman - PG]

Originally Posted by webmasterchecks

why do you got to piss on everyones parade?

I forgot it's GFY where drama and piss fests are above common sense and the law. Try to look at the facts. Do you thinks sponsors and content owners do not care that their content is shared on site with Alexa rankings of <100? How about all the 100s of people screaming "DMCA THEM!" on GFY without a clue? If it was that simple do you think there would still be Hollywood movies on these sites?

Have a read: http://thepiratebay.org/legal

[noone1]

I don't own paysites, but I don't think I would care too much about content being on it. I think we've all downloaded far too many mp3s and videos to be angry about it.

Don't forget that all torrent traffic isn't bad. I just downloaded the entire season of Flight of the Conchords and I will probably buy the DVD's when they come out. I'm in France, I can't watch it here. That torrent just made HBO some money and, after watching, I told a bunch of my friends about how funny it is.

I don't think HBO got hurt much by this.

[noone1]

Oh and maybe a better way to fight it would beto figure out if its possible to currupt a current torrent or maybe create tons of currupt torrents.

[Eman - PG]

Originally Posted by noone1

Oh and maybe a better way to fight it would beto figure out if its possible to currupt a current torrent or maybe create tons of currupt torrents.

MPAA/RIAA is way ahead of us with that. Their IPs are already blacklisted by the PeerGuardian software. The torrent site admins take down the fake torrents very fast. There's also sites out there that index fake torrents and fake emule files example: http://fenopy.com/fakefinder/

[»Rob Content«]

Originally Posted by Eman - PG

MPAA/RIAA is way ahead of us with that. Their IPs are already blacklisted by the PeerGuardian software. The torrent site admins take down the fake torrents very fast. There's also sites out there that index fake torrents and fake emule files example: http://fenopy.com/fakefinder/

Can you get me on ICQ man, i'd like to talk about a few things you've brought up, but not on the board.

436 795 438

[noone1]

Well maybe you will all get lucky and some big, bad, major corporation people will decide to take things into their own hands. Too bad it's not the oil or tabacco companies getting fucked by the people who run these major torrent sites. I'm pretty sure they would take things into their own hands and some people would wind up missing.

[Minte]

I wonder if mainstream companies like Autodesk and Solidworks is aware of how much of their software is being given away.
I typed in autocad on piratesbay and could've grabbed nearly $50k worth of CAD software on the first two pages.
Historically,they are very protective of their products.

[seeric]

I think this may be the best thread ever posted on GFY to date.

I just printed this and framed it on my wall above my work area.

[noone1]

Originally Posted by Minte

I wonder if mainstream companies like Autodesk and Solidworks is aware of how much of their software is being given away.
I typed in autocad on piratesbay and could've grabbed nearly $50k worth of CAD software on the first two pages.
Historically,they are very protective of their products.

How many major commercial companies do you think would risk not owning the software. They don't exactly make programs everyone can use. Also, don't forget that their really expensive stuff cant even be run by 99% of people. My brother works at a post house and the machines that run the high end applications cost millions.

Sure, 3dsmax, combustion, autocad, maya, and the other desktop stuff can be run on normal computers, but the majority of the people who will download this won't be using it for anything commercial anyway. These aren't exactly MS Office or Warcraft.

[Theo]

PirateBay hasnt received proper heat yet but it's only matter of time.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by noone1

How many major commercial companies do you think would risk not owning the software. They don't exactly make programs everyone can use. Also, don't forget that their really expensive stuff cant even be run by 99% of people. My brother works at a post house and the machines that run the high end applications cost millions.

Sure, 3dsmax, combustion, autocad, maya, and the other desktop stuff can be run on normal computers, but the majority of the people who will download this won't be using it for anything commercial anyway. These aren't exactly MS Office or Warcraft.

That's all true,most people won't ever use any of it. But it doesn't change the fact that it was all there to download.

My experience with authorized AUTODESK dealers is that they don't care whether or not you use it at home or at the office. It's $4k a seat.

If anyone really has the incentive and resources to go after these torrent sites it's companies like Autodesk.

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

PirateBay hasnt received proper heat yet but it's only matter of time.

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

[quantum-x]

Things are being done. I designed and implemented a solution that will work for any content owner and curb the problem. Putting finishing touches on the business plan.

[noone1]

Originally Posted by Minte

That's all true,most people won't ever use any of it. But it doesn't change the fact that it was all there to download.

My experience with authorized AUTODESK dealers is that they don't care whether or not you use it at home or at the office. It's $4k a seat.

If anyone really has the incentive and resources to go after these torrent sites it's companies like Autodesk.

True, but very little harm is being done. It probably isnt worth the effort. The time and money needed would not be worth stopping some mech engineering major from dicking around at home.

And what if that kid becomes good with it and decides he wants to start a business or gets a job using it? Surely he would now buy the software if he was starting a serious business and surely he is helping Autodesk by getting a job using it professionaly. So they let the kid play with it, he becomes interested and buys it or works for a company who buys it for him. It's a possible situation. And if he loses interest in it instead, so be it. Didn't hurt Autodesk.

I just don't see much harm done to companies who offer professional software that requires years of training and experience to use.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by halfpint

http://thepiratebay.org/legal

Heat translates to action, not email communications.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by noone1

True, but very little harm is being done. It probably isnt worth the effort. The time and money needed would not be worth stopping some mech engineering major from dicking around at home.

And what if that kid becomes good with it and decides he wants to start a business or gets a job using it? Surely he would now buy the software if he was starting a serious business and surely he is helping Autodesk by getting a job using it professionaly. So they let the kid play with it, he becomes interested and buys it or works for a company who buys it for him. It's a possible situation. And if he loses interest in it instead, so be it. Didn't hurt Autodesk.

I just don't see much harm done to companies who offer professional software that requires years of training and experience to use.

There is a simple solution. As a longtime Autodesk customer who has shelled out many thousands of dollars starting with R10 up to the current Inventor I am disappointed that their products are all available for free on these sites.
I will drop them a letter and let them know that.

[Trax]

Originally Posted by WiredGuy

I wonder if this would work against sites like ThePirateBay.org. The RIAA/MPAA couldn't shut them down, they laugh at C&D's from companies like Microsoft. These sites really evade the law to the t, if these major firms couldn't shut them down, I somewhat have my doubts we can do it.
WG

i absolutely 100% agree with that... but the target should not primarily be piratebay.. they are definitely a special case for numerous reasons
but id say the majority of other torrents ain't as luckily situated as PB

[halfpint]

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

Heat translates to action, not email communications.

Do you seriously think that the likes of warner bros, msn, aol and the other big named companys wouldent have allready filled lawsuites agaist them, if they knew they could win.

[The Duck]

I still recieve tons of spam, so I guess the spam groups failed with that technique.

[Brujah]

At least some actions are being taken, and things are happening.

BREIN Wins. Demonoid financials and ownership revealed and ceased.
http://www.slyck.com/story1533.html

Comcast Throttles BitTorrent Traffic, Seeding Impossible
http://torrentfreak.com/comcast-thro...ng-impossible/

the US had threatened to put Sweden on WTO’s blacklist because they didn’t take the Pirate Bay down.

A lot of Torrent related news here:
http://torrentfreak.com/