Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?

[pimplink]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0803/p...gn.html?s=entb

EXCERPT:

Atheism envisioned a glorious future for a humanity freed from outdated religious dogmas and restrictions, with unlimited potential provided by scientific advancement and the human imagination. Human beings could not only be good without God, but much better.

The reality has been very different. Along with progress, scientific advance brought environmental devastation and the potential to eliminate human life. Atheistic regimes dominating a huge proportion of the globe created new forms of tyranny (including mind control) and executed unprecedented millions.

At the same time, many arguments failed to hold up. "No major historian of science now takes seriously the idea that science and religion are in perpetual conflict," McGrath says.

While some, like Richard Dawkins, continue to insist on atheism, his fellow Darwinist, Stephen Jay Gould, countered that Darwinism has no bearing on the existence of God: "We neither affirm nor deny it; we simply can't comment on it as scientists." A 1996 survey showed that 40 percent of scientists hold religious beliefs.

[baddog]

it provides no hope

[pimplink]

Originally posted by baddog
it provides no hope

Define "hope"? An afterlife? An explanation or a theory with predictive power?

Or basically an ethereal appeal to a "sense of meaning"?

[AgentCash]

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/sci_relig.htm

Larson and Witham present the results of a replication of 1913 and 1933 surveys by James H. Leuba. In those surveys, Leuba mailed a questionnaire to leading scientists asking about their belief in "a God in intellectual and affective communication with humankind" and in "personal immortality". Larson and Witham used the same wording [as in the Leuba studies], and sent their questionnaire to 517 members of the [U.S.] National Academy of Sciences from the biological and physical sciences (the latter including mathematicians, physicists and astronomers). The return rate was slightly over 50%.

The results were as follows (figures in %):

BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief         &n bsp;        27.7   15   7.0
Personal disbelief         &n bsp;    52.7   68 &n bsp; 72.2
Doubt or agnosticism         20.9   17 &n bsp; 20.8

BELIEF IN IMMORTALITY 1914 1933 1998

Personal belief 35.2 18 7.9
Personal disbelief 25.4 53 76.7
Doubt or agnosticism 43.7 29 23.3

Note: The 1998 immortality figures add up to more than 100%. The misprint is in the original. The 76.7% is likely too high.

[cherrylula]

It has and is catching on. The more crazed the christians get the more people become Atheists. I see it more and more all the time.

Christianity will be a silly thing of the past someday. Of course there will always be those who must hang on.

[pimplink]

Is disbelief the only foreseeable/probable option? Since you mentioned a particular religion... maybe people would switch religious 'flavors' similar to people trying out Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism back in the 60's?

Originally posted by cherrylula
It has and is catching on. The more crazed the christians get the more people become Atheists. I see it more and more all the time.

Christianity will be a silly thing of the past someday. Of course there will always be those who must hang on.

[Bill8]

Fear.

Cowardice.

Indoctrination as children.

Trauma. "no atheists in foxholes".

Herd behavior. Security within the herd.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally posted by baddog
it provides no hope

most of us do not need hope.

the population is growing.

hope is for people who have not lived a real life.

[cherrylula]

Trying out other religions is silly imo. But sure I suppose some may go that route.

Personally once someone has had enough bullshit from any religion they usually come around.

I've been an atheist since I was about 16 and have never swayed. And things I have seen in my life have only secured my beliefs in no heaven and hell.

We're all just a bunch of energy particles. Let science show you the way.

[Thrawn$]

Because GOD exist
like it or not

[cherrylula]

People fail to realize how enormous the universe is, and then some.

Where is this "God" people speak of? Is he in the next galaxy?

[pimplink]

Originally posted by cherrylula

We're all just a bunch of energy particles. Let science show you the way.

Sounds like a religious statement to me. Eliades ("Sacred and The Profane") defines religion as a belief that EXPLAINS phenomena and has PREDICTIVE value. Your statement of "we're all just a bunch of energy particles" is a statement of causation/explaining existence. While your statement "let science show you the way" has a predictive value in that all things can be explained by science.

Religion in a different wrapper?

[Fletch XXX]

pimplink, how can religion be predictive?

what has religion ever predicted?

and what does being energy particles have to do with any of that?

what a joke.

science and religion are different. do not fool yourself by combining the two

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by pimplink
Sounds like a religious statement to me. Eliades ("Sacred and The Profane") defines religion as a belief that EXPLAINS phenomena and has PREDICTIVE value. Your statement of "we're all just a bunch of energy particles" is a statement of causation/explaining existence. While your statement "let science show you the way" has a predictive value in that all things can be explained by science.

Religion in a different wrapper?

oh gimme a break. Because of the structure of my sentences you are calling religion?

Ok, so educate yourself on science, not the bible. What the hell do you want me to say?

I am far from a religious person.

science = facts

religion = bullshit

[pimplink]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
pimplink you are an idiot

how can religion be predictive?

what has religion ever predicted?

and what does being energy particles have to do with any of that?

what a joke.

Thanks for the conclusory statements, I'm sure there was a lot of logic and nuanced deliberation before you arrived there.

Anyway, anthropologists like Eliades view religion as predictive in that it is a set of beliefs that seeks to predict human actions.
It is not predictive in the scientific sense. It predicts in the ideological/psychological sense. For example: A Hindu believes in reincarnation (the cycle of SAMSARA). In this belief system, the 'knowledge' is that one's karma will result (PREDICTION) in reincarnation either as a lower, same, or higher being.

Same 'predictive' dynamics of religion is in play with Christians. You BELIEVE that Jesus is your savior and you live your life accordingly. Hence, there's a predictive value that you will GO TO HEAVEN.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally posted by baddog
it provides no hope

[pimplink]

Originally posted by cherrylula
oh gimme a break. Because of the structure of my sentences you are calling religion?

Ok, so educate yourself on science, not the bible. What the hell do you want me to say?

I am far from a religious person.

science = facts

religion = bullshit

I just looked at the pattern of your logic and just had to laugh that your disbelief is grounded more in your distaste in religion (namely Christian) than in any disbelief.

In essence, you transferred your belief from 'bullshit' (religion) to 'facts' (science)

Nothing wrong with that, I was just pointing out your logic (fraught with emotionalism as it is).

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by pimplink
Same 'predictive' dynamics of religion is in play with Christians. You BELIEVE that Jesus is your savior and you live your life accordingly. Hence, there's a predictive value that you will GO TO HEAVEN.

And where is this Heaven? In a dead person's mind? Not possible.

[BRISK]

I don't know many cultures in the world where being an atheist is a benefit. Conforming to a religion is much easier. Being an atheist is not easy.

[Fletch XXX]

i learned more in 5th grade being taught by nuns.

i think ill close this boring thread

[pimplink]

Originally posted by cherrylula
And where is this Heaven? In a dead person's mind? Not possible.

I'm not arguing there's a heaven (far far from it) I'm just providing an example of religion's 'predictive' abilities when it comes to 'faith systems.'

One thing is clear. Regardless of what you believe, human's have an innate desire to ask WHY do things exist and WHAT WILL happen to these things.

[pimplink]

Originally posted by Fletch XXX
i learned more in 5th grade being taught by nuns.

i think ill close this boring thread

Remember, boys and girls, ad hominems do not arguments make

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by pimplink
I just looked at the pattern of your logic and just had to laugh that your disbelief is grounded more in your distaste in religion (namely Christian) than in any disbelief.

In essence, you transferred your belief from 'bullshit' (religion) to 'facts' (science)

Nothing wrong with that, I was just pointing out your logic (fraught with emotionalism as it is).

Most of my experiences with religious people were either christian or catholic. This does not mean I might like another religion. I was not raised praying or believing in a higher god.

And yes in addition to my beliefs, I have had my issues with christians and sick religious people that have given me reason to dislike them even more.

But had they been another stupid religion, I'd be bashing them too. Its simple.

[buzzard]

Originally posted by Thrawn$
Because GOD exist
like it or not

Ask him if he loves delusional lunatics

[benc]

Its not a viable believe system because it closes doors and oversimplifies.

Athiest are no different than the radical religious. Just on different ends of the spectrum.

Agnostic is a better path. It allows you to keep an open mind and continue the search for the truth.

[Libertine]

Originally posted by benc
Its not a viable believe system because it closes doors and oversimplifies.

Athiest are no different than the radical religious. Just on different ends of the spectrum.

Agnostic is a better path. It allows you to keep an open mind and continue the search for the truth.

Not really. Do you believe in leprechauns who hide in the forest and have pots of gold?
If the answer is no, you should realize that the existence of leprechauns has never been disproven - mainly because it's impossible to disprove. The reason you don't believe is that it seems very unlikely based on the information you have.

The same goes for religions. They all have a very low probability of being true based on the information we have right now.

Atheism doesn't mean knowing for sure no God exists, it just means not believing one exists. If additional information becomes available, that position could change, just like with any other belief you have.

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by punkworld
Atheism doesn't mean knowing for sure no God exists, it just means not believing one exists. If additional information becomes available, that position could change, just like with any other belief you have.

And on that note, (don't laugh at me) I have seen what I believe was some sort of ball of energy thing once, what some would call a ghost. I was with another person who witnessed the same thing, otherwise I would not have given it much thought.

So in terms of an afterlife, who knows. We might all turn into these shooting light things. But it doesn't have anything to do with a "god".

[Odin88]

I don't believe in any particular religion, and although I could of come close to becomming an atheist on further thought I turned away. Even if science can prove what sparked off the very start of our universe, there must of course been something there to at first cause that very spark.

[RicardoB]

Originally posted by Thrawn$
Because GOD exist
like it or not

Bow down to the mighty Juicifer!

[DTK]

The concept of some gaseous vertebrate named 'god' just cracks me up

[Gunni]

I don't belive in God, and not so much in sience either,
there are too many things that science can't explain, and too many rules of physics get broken all the time.
It's not long since sience said the in theory bumble bees couldn't fly, but as any one that has ever seen one can tell you they can, so they had to re-write a bunch of rules to accommodate the bumble bees

I do how ever belive in Aliens, and supernatural stuff like ghosts
We are much more than just energy particles and DNA, besides, ebergy never completely disapears...

[panchodog's izzy]

Believe in something. Whatever gets you through the day.

If it's good for you, and it doesn't hurt anybody else, you have yourself a good karma right there...

[Giorgio_Xo]

It is difficult to be religious about not being religious.

[CoolE]

Originally posted by pimplink
Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?

The funny answer is there is no money it, unlike the alternative.

The serious answer is atheism HAS caught on bigtime. In terms of percentage of the poulation there must be 10,000% more atheists than there were 100 years ago. It's just a matter of time; every year that goes by that God fails to make a personal appearance or leave some evidence of his almighty existence creates more atheists.

I would have loved to be one of those brave souls who was an atheist about 150 years ago - now that's being a fucking rebel!

[Snake Doctor]

Because there's no money in it.

[Yngwie]

fuck believing in some invisible thing that religion created.. I believe in MYSELF! I don't need some idiotic religion to give my life meaning.

[Mogulman]

Originally posted by Thrawn$
Because GOD exist
like it or not

God is a crutch.

Its a belief that comforts those who can't handle the fact that there may be no meaning to human existence.

I also think belief in a God that specifically shaped the Earth for mankind is the most arrogant thing humans have ever come up with. Countless species have become extinct and I have no doubts that humans will as well without any fanfare. There is no reason to think that humans are the culmination of evolution outside of A. self love and/or B. fear of death.

[Drake]

Originally posted by baddog
it provides no hope

Agreed.

And while atheism hasn't caught on, being an agnostic has.

[alexg]

noone can prove that god does not exist.

in my opinion atheists lack self confidence, and they are very influenced, and lack the ability to think outside the box.

there is the other type of people, who are uncertein whether god exists or not (forgot what they're called), and that is more then acceptable.

[neewwman]

Atheism has not caught on because . . .

. . . most people can't handle the truth.

[alexg]

Originally posted by neewwman
Atheism has not caught on because . . .

. . . most people can't handle the truth.

and where did atheists get that special gift that allows them to state that god for sure does not exist?

[chupacabra]

Topic: Why has ATHEISM failed to catch on?

because handicapped people need crutches..

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by alexg
in my opinion atheists lack self confidence, and they are very influenced, and lack the ability to think outside the box.

I am an atheist and I am confident enough to say you are a dumbass.

And what is your religion? Aren't you a teenage wanna be pornographer? Your god must love you.

[chupacabra]

alt.fuck.the.skull.of.jesus

[Drake]

Originally posted by Mike33
Agreed.

And while atheism hasn't caught on, being an agnostic has.

So too has the 'Reiligion' of Evolution. Under scrtunity the "science" of Evolution doesn't stand up any better than God fearing religions. It's only a theory and one that has very little supporting evidence.

[cherrylula]

Originally posted by Mike33
So too has the 'Reiligion' of Evolution. Under scrtunity the "science" of Evolution doesn't stand up any better than God fearing religions. It's only a theory and one that has very little supporting evidence.

Now that's funny.

Even incomplete scientific evidence as to how we got here is a bit more solid than some bible tale.

I suppose you believe in immaculate conception too? I hope it never happens to me.

[Rictor]

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

[RRACY]

The meaning of life=LOVE Without love you are just getting by.

[pimplink]

Originally posted by Rictor
Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Although there's truth to that statement by Karl Marx, he failed to see that communism can also be another form of religion as well.

Explanation for current problems = class exploitation. Predictive factor = class uprising / worker's revolt = workers' paradise/dictatorship of the Proletariat.

[Head]

gay