I-Bill going down would be a catastophic event for our industry. More news...

[Rick Latona]

Yesterday I posted this:

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

24. This restraint has particular urgency in light of devastating effect that First Data?s actions are likely to have on iBill?s business. Indeed, without such an order iBill will likely lose its business in the next few days. Thus, iBill will be irreparably harmed unless the Court orders a temporary restraining order.

Today after much additional thought and many high level conversations I have come to the conclusion that many people are missing the whole picture here.

Even if the TRO is stayed, FDC does not have to pay processing revenues to iBill. They can, by the terms of their agreement, hold ALL funds and add them to the reserves as the risk of a fine is huge. In fact, FDC does not even have to give a reason, they will just hold the money. I believe many programs are going to go down with the ship b/c they will not get paid. The "reserves" of $21 million are gone, gone and gone. FDC holds $11 million, or so iBill says and chargebacks and credits will eat that up in 2 months. The money they owe clients may not be funded, iBill is paying 2 - 4 weeks in arrears with today's processing revenue. So the music will stop, imo, and when it does there will be no chairs and no floor. This is going to be a bad, bad economic fallout and wm's don't get it. Sending one single sale to them now is butt-stupid for any pay per join program.

Someone please tell me if I am wrong! If I'm right, how many programs are going to fall? How many webmasters are going to be in deap financial trouble? One of the big three processors going under is a major event.

[Rick Latona]

Grrrr. I wish you could edit the spelling of a thread title!!

[NaughtyAlysha]

Not looking good....

[eroswebmaster]

It definitely would not be good news.

[VeriSexy]

Shit, fatpockets my favorite sponsor just closed doors. Now this..........

[okny]

Hmmm Stupidcash yesterday ibill today lets see what happens tomorrow.

[chowda]

man, that would suck if ibill went down.

man if ur right, internext would suck big time

[strobi]

if Ibill would go down, prepare for some mayor drama

[Hank_Heartland]

I would not call them dead yet...Ibill has a few lives left

[Jman]

Rick looks like you have done your homework very well. This is BAD BAD NEWS like you have just stated.

I for one am glad I am not using IBill and will pass along same message to all the companies our firm is involved with.

Face it folks, the facts are in your face, IBIll is in trouble and have been juggling a lot in the past as well. I have heard few friends of mine who are program owners tell me one war story or another with IBIll.

I would hate to see a good program go down cause they can't get paid at all by there current processor.

[deleteduser]

doesn't look good...

[xxxoutsourcing]

Some pretty intresting valid points there Rick and if they do go down the knock on effect could be pretty serious even for people that are not directly connected to ibill, but for other companies that take revenue from the guys that are making money with ibill.
YIKES

[andrej_NDC]

thanks god they didnt reply to me any time and I got ccbill

[Rick Latona]

Originally posted by Hank_MrSkin
I would not call them dead yet...Ibill has a few lives left

You process through CC Bill so I'm sure you aren't worried.

[Nysus]

How would this affect IBill EU?

Matt

[Shoplifter]

Originally posted by Nysus
How would this affect IBill EU?

Matt

Have any EU guys received a wire this week?

[FlyingIguana]

hopefully it doesn't happen

the sky is falling

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by Nysus
How would this affect IBill EU?

Matt

I think, they would go down too, they are just a part of the company.

[mary34d]

holy shit

[Rick Latona]

Originally posted by Nysus
How would this affect IBill EU?

Matt

I'd be surprised if one entity could survive without the other. IMHO

[andrej_NDC]

Originally posted by Rick Latona
You process through CC Bill so I'm sure you aren't worried.

and you through paypal/epoch, not?

[MattO]

What if they're able to find an offshore bank to start processing through really quickly?

[Shap]

Rick I know you are Paycom's number 1 supporter and would like nothing more than to help stir up shit, cost ibill business and help your buddies and Paycom. I think you are pushing things a little too far.

Ibill isn't going out of business.

[Manowar]

[Nysus]

Originally posted by Rick Latona
I'd be surprised if one entity could survive without the other. IMHO

Seperate entities AFAIK. They'd use a European processor?

Matt

[Lawyerssuck]

What you guys have to realize is no judge is going to let one company put another company out of business. Ibill went to court last week and got an injunction. First data might be able to hold some extra money but not all of Ibills money.

According to the news release Ibill has already been in talks with another processor. When they go to court they will tell the judge they have another processor and the judge will set a date on when First data can cut them off for good.

I would not be to worried about this situation.

[Rick Latona]

Originally posted by andrej_NDC
and you through paypal/epoch, not?

I use Epoch as a primary and CC Bill as a secondary.

[Rick Latona]

Originally posted by shap
Rick I know you are Paycom's number 1 supporter and would like nothing more than to help stir up shit, cost ibill business and help your buddies and Paycom. I think you are pushing things a little too far.

Ibill isn't going out of business.

You process through I-Bill so I hope you are right. I send traffic to hundreds of programs so I'm a bit worried about my revenue.

Hell, we are still getting I-Bill Bang Bus rebills and we haven't sent that site traffic in two years!

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by Lawyerssuck
What you guys have to realize is no judge is going to let one company put another company out of business. Ibill went to court last week and got an injunction. First data might be able to hold some extra money but not all of Ibills money.

According to the news release Ibill has already been in talks with another processor. When they go to court they will tell the judge they have another processor and the judge will set a date on when First data can cut them off for good.

I would not be to worried about this situation.

What you are missing is that when a processor of that size starts running all charges through another bank the initial bank has a huge risk of fines, chargebacks, and refunds. Yes, it is probably a damn good chance that Ibill will never see another dime from First Data in a long ass time, if ever.

Think about it for 2 seconds. First Data will no longer have new charges being credited to them to help float the chargebacks etc and will of course hold all funds until everything is settled.

I think Rick is on to something as much as I'd like to believe otherwise.

Sometimes you have to open your eyes and look right in front of your face. Dig up the old Globill threads if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[MickeyG]

This isn't news, Just your opinion.

[mary34d]

damn people's recurring is going to be fucked up

[crockett]

doesn't look good.. luckily I'm not using IBill for anything or at least I don't think I am.. I guess with all the cascading billing options programs have you never know.

one things is for sure, even if they do get it worked out, drama like this will certainly not help them in any means. I would imagine stuff like this floating around would cause a few people to think twice about processing with them.. both new costumers and existing.

[Nysus]

I just got off the phone with a friend and IBill processed all charges on 'hold' a few days ago. Everything sounds okay.

Matt

[Drake]

This would be devastating

[Nysus]

Originally posted by Mike33
This would be devastating

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showth...hreadid=360244

Matt

[Shap]

Stocktrader I believe you are wrong. All the risk gets moved to the new processing bank.

Remember First Data gets to hold the reserves for x amount of time and the reserve amount would be more than enough to cover the worst case scenario (that's why the reserve is so high, it's for worst case scenarios).

[scoreman]

I don't agree with the Rick or Stocktrader23's analysis.

IBill will be taking their recurring and the new joins to Merrick. This isnt a situation where program owners stop running transactions, but merely have moved them. VISA/MC track site owners on an individual basis and so long as they keep their ratios in balance at Merrick, VISA is not likely to say, Oh I see you have 100 chargebacks on zero new transactions at FDR but no chargebacks on 15,000 transactions at Merrick...you deserve a fine. That doesnt make sense. VISA deals with companies moving to different banks all the time. If this analysis were correct, no one could ever change their merchant account.

11 million is a huge amount of money considering iBill was well under 1% chargebacks. That amounts to $240,000 in chargebacks on $24,000 million assuming they were right at 1% for the month after they leave. FDR is going to be releasing a large portion of that money to iBill.....there is just no way they are going to be able to keep that money and take the money from the new joins that are happening right now as well. Dont forget that this money is not one lump sum that has one payable date. This is a rolling reserve that has dates for release. IBill will get past individual dates and monies will be flowing back to them, but its not like a windfall as they will be paying to a new reserve at Merrick.

[tony286]

Originally posted by Rick Latona
You process through I-Bill so I hope you are right. I send traffic to hundreds of programs so I'm a bit worried about my revenue.

Hell, we are still getting I-Bill Bang Bus rebills and we haven't sent that site traffic in two years!

Well if you are worried about your money , starting a panic isnt best the way to insure the company survives the hit. After meeting you , I can say I have more respect for you as a business person than anyone I have met in this business. I cant help but feel that under the guise of being a helpful news source , your trying to drive nails into a coffin of a company thats far from dead. Makes me wonder if someone else is feeding info and that way its not from their hand.

[.:St Ides:.]

Rick I spoke to a good friend at ibill, he said that things are messed up, but are not going to affect them.

Due to it being a legal issue they have a sort of gag order on them, once they get a few things resolved they will then issue a proper statement, he said it could be done maybe today.

[PornGeneral]

Start printing your account statements and processing histories...

And have a copy of your WM agreement printed out.

[stocktrader23]

Originally posted by shap
Stocktrader I believe you are wrong. All the risk gets moved to the new processing bank.

Remember First Data gets to hold the reserves for x amount of time and the reserve amount would be more than enough to cover the worst case scenario (that's why the reserve is so high, it's for worst case scenarios).

Of course. So how long can FD hold the reserves in the event a new bank is used? I would wager it's a long ass time.

[OY]

Before going into a hysteria about this event, look at what what YOU can do to make yourself sit in a safer place.

ANYONE using a single processor has a right to be nervous - Be it with any of the processors. They come and they go.

The SAD thing in this is that this is about IBILL, a joint pioneer in our industry that have history going back since the inception of adult internet. And it would be a disaster if they actually went out of business.

They are not yet out of business, and we all hope they won't, for the good of our industry.

All I know is that OUR clients can switch between any of the processors they use in our cascade and still use the same linking code for ALL processors, be it Epochsystems, IBill or CCBill.

History: Many of our clients used PSW as one processor among THREE when they were processing back in the day. The day they went under ALL our clients switched the cascacde from their admin panel to reflect this change, not having to have their affiliates change ANY of their linking codes. That easy. And that is how easy you should have your setup in case something like PSW happens.



All I can say is that I really hope IBill pulls through, hell, they have been through tough times before...

Good luck today!

[Validus]

Good Luck to IBill and all their clients. Payment processing is a science if its own.

[AdnerAdvertising]

Originally posted by Rick Latona
Yesterday I posted this:

Evidence 1

Evidence 2

24. This restraint has particular urgency in light of devastating effect that First Data?s actions are likely to have on iBill?s business. Indeed, without such an order iBill will likely lose its business in the next few days. Thus, iBill will be irreparably harmed unless the Court orders a temporary restraining order.

Today after much additional thought and many high level conversations I have come to the conclusion that many people are missing the whole picture here.

Even if the TRO is stayed, FDC does not have to pay processing revenues to iBill. They can, by the terms of their agreement, hold ALL funds and add them to the reserves as the risk of a fine is huge. In fact, FDC does not even have to give a reason, they will just hold the money. I believe many programs are going to go down with the ship b/c they will not get paid. The "reserves" of $21 million are gone, gone and gone. FDC holds $11 million, or so iBill says and chargebacks and credits will eat that up in 2 months. The money they owe clients may not be funded, iBill is paying 2 - 4 weeks in arrears with today's processing revenue. So the music will stop, imo, and when it does there will be no chairs and no floor. This is going to be a bad, bad economic fallout and wm's don't get it. Sending one single sale to them now is butt-stupid for any pay per join program.

Someone please tell me if I am wrong! If I'm right, how many programs are going to fall? How many webmasters are going to be in deap financial trouble? One of the big three processors going under is a major event.

I'm with you Rick, Paycom all the way

[WiredGuy]

Are there still any major PPS sponsors processing with iBill as primary? Reason I ask is I'm rather worried about their financial ability to continue operating should the worst case scenario happen.

WG

[Nysus]

Originally posted by AdnerAdvertising
I'm with you Rick, Paycom all the way

Only reason I wouldn't use Paycom is their business ethics / practices that they follow - generating a large portion of their revenue through allowing pre-checked cross-sales.

Matt

[SmokeyTheBear]

[Nysus]

Originally posted by WiredGuy
Are there still any major PPS sponsors processing with iBill as primary? Reason I ask is I'm rather worried about their financial ability to continue operating should the worst case scenario happen.

WG

Yes - They aren't worrying though because they've all been informed of the situation and how it is now resolved.

Matt

[WiredGuy]

Originally posted by Nysus
Only reason I wouldn't use Paycom is their business ethics / practices that they follow - generating a large portion of their revenue through allowing pre-checked cross-sales.

Matt

This is a business decision made by their customers, it's not like Paycom is forcing people to generate cross-sales and so long as they're in operating margins without getting into trouble with Visa, then what's the problem?

To me this is a smart business decision, Paycom is giving customers the ability to generate as much money as possible from surfers.

WG

[SmokeyTheBear]