An open letter to the ASACP Advisory Council - webmasters, feel free to agree or not

[baddog]

50 people wating for a retraction

[baddog]

*waiting even

[SexyScribe]

Throughout all of the discussions on dot XXX, there has been no proof brought to bear that such a domain would actually do anything to help protect children.

In order for ASACP to remain true to its goals and continue to uphold its mission of protecting children, I believe ASACP should make abundantly clear, by whatever means necessary, its position that dot XXX does nothing to further the advancement of protecting children from online adult material, despite whatever was initially claimed, and furthermore, should rescind any previous support, implied or overt, of dot XXX.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by abyss_al

yeah.... it will go through.. like prohibition did right?

not sure if you know this.. but this was attempted years ago... and ICANN tured it down..

Al, this is why they are using Joan's applause as evidence of industry support.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Choker

I suggest people show their support for no .xxx by joining the FSC and telling ASACP to start thinking about cleaning house a little.

I'd agree. Now I need to go Choke me chicken...

[baddog]

Originally Posted by SexyScribe

Throughout all of the discussions on dot XXX, there has been no proof brought to bear that such a domain would actually do anything to help protect children.

In order for ASACP to remain true to its goals and continue to uphold its mission of protecting children, I believe ASACP should make abundantly clear, by whatever means necessary, its position that dot XXX does nothing to further the advancement of protecting children from online adult material, despite whatever was initially claimed, and furthermore, should rescind any previous support, implied or overt, of dot XXX.

Thank you, and it was a pleasure seeing you again

[abyss_al]

Originally Posted by jonesy

prohibition was a law for 13 yrs.

thanks for playing.

nonono... thank you

[AdultMegaCash]

Originally Posted by MikeHawk

ASACP...it wont be likely that they will change there stance, i feel bad for Joan, she is clearly not in charge here. Can you say "puppet show".....this is the "selling point" of this .XXX deal, they way they have it wrapped.

I must it is a slick attempt to sell a "dead dog" but so far its been slow goin on everyone catching on, good to see posts like these start to educate everyone out there to what is going on behind closed doors with our future.

Its just stinks so bad....

I hear you man. It is really fucked up how some people keep only their best interests in mind when making a decision like this. I understand that you must look out for yourself before others, but when you're a company like ASACP you need to keep your stance in the best interest for the better part of the industry your represent. Many of us have paid a lot of money to them over the years, and for them to support .xxx for what appears to mainly be finacial reasons is just plain wrong.

People keep mentioning how we do need to police ourselves, and censor ourselves for many different reasons. If things keep coming up that will spilt up the adult industry into groups it will become a lot easier for the people against us to pick us apart. Sure we can police ourselves, but what does having a .com, .net, .jp, .co.uk or anything else have to do with it.

I've said it once and now I am saying it twice. ASACP needs to make this situation right, they need to contact the FSC and anyone else needed and take a stance that this is not what is best for anyone.

I would really also like someone to not only explain to me, but also convince me as to how having .xxx on my domains will help stop CP. If my site switches to .xxx that means Pedo's will be more scared to put CP on the net? Please explain this to me so I understand the real benefit.

[Snake Doctor]

I don't think webmasters should support ASACP until they start supporting us.

The vast majority of people in this industry are against .xxx and if ASACP wants the financial support of that vast majority they should rescind any implied support for a .xxx TLD and join with the FSC in fighting against it.

[SexyScribe]

Originally Posted by baddog

Thank you, and it was a pleasure seeing you again

Likewise, baddog.

[Theo]

If you support .xxx you are looking for trouble in your own business. It's simple as that. It doesn't fight CP and it's just a mean of censorship and possible source of profit for certain operations. I don't know many things about ASACP, I recognize their efforts, but I'm sceptical regarding their involvement. xxx domains can be the basis of several types of attacks against the adult industry and makes me wonder why some people haven't seen it yet.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by baddog

Mark . . . how many times are you going to say this, and how many times do I have to ask you what makes you think ASACP would even entertain the notion of doing something to "lobby" for the adult industry? That is not their job, it is not what they do.

Why you think they have some obligation to us is beyond me. I suggest you have someone read and explain their mission statement to you as you obviously don't get it.

Stop trying to clip me dumbass.
My point is the entire way the .xxx thing is going is incorrect.

Yes yes...
The ASACP should not have a fuck all to do with Protecting the industry and only concentrate on irradicating CP within it, thats fine. What the fuck ever dude...

Regardless my point is organizations that are supposedly recieving monies from .xxx are not on a mission statement to protect our industry.

THATS KINDA FUCKED UP IMHO.
.XXX is a vote.

Part of the money from that vote must go towards defending our industry.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

.XXX is a vote.

Part of the money from that vote must go towards defending our industry.

what the hell does that mean? .xxx is a vote?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by baddog

what the hell does that mean? .xxx is a vote?

Buying a domain = yes.

Buying a domain is "Support" towards our industry going into .xxx.

Play it out in your head. Thats where everyone will end up going, by force without protections should .xxx go into effect. Every penny of it should goto preserving and protecting the industry, not wallets.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally Posted by DonovanPhillips

It also pisses me off that they changed their name from:

Adult Sites Against Child Porn

to

Association of Sites Advocating Child Protection


What? Are "adult sites" not "PC" enough for you? Fuck that! Don't expect our support if you're ashamed of us. Fuck you.

When they changed their name, the new name made it sound like they were becoming an anti-porn organization like all of the other religious anti-porn groups who claim to be protecting the children!

They used to be against illegal child porn, which was a good thing to be against.

With the new direction, are they trying to be the morality police for the adult industry instead of spending their time fighting child porn?

[titmowse]

I can't remember. Did I bump this thread already?

[polish_aristocrat]

Originally Posted by abyss_al

not sure if you know this.. but this was attempted years ago... and ICANN tured it down..

dude where have you been???

ICANN oficially approved .xxx 10 days ago and entered now the final negotiations with their registry and .xxx is expected to go live in about 6-9 months

[Mack]

Originally Posted by abyss_al

yeah.... it will go through.. like prohibition did right?

not sure if you know this.. but this was attempted years ago... and ICANN tured it down..

Please see my earlier post for full details. Here is a bit of back story.

This is not just a theoretical concern. Back in 2000, before Lawley got involved as president, ICM Registry applied to run the .xxx domain. But ICANN shot down the proposal.

It didn't take Congress long to get involved. At a hearing in February 2001, Rep. Fred Upton, R-Mich., demanded to know why ICANN didn't approve .xxx "as a means of protecting our kids from the awful, awful filth which is sometimes widespread on the Internet." Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., griped to a federal commission that .xxx was necessary to force adult Webmasters to "abide by the same standard as the proprietor of an X-rated movie theater."

[baddog]

too important to risk hitting page 2

[pimplink]

.xxx is badddd

[Rhesus]

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

I think that .xxx should be fighted by any official and un-official means and it would be definitely great if all the adult industry supporting organizations, would be clearly against it.

I Agree.

[Donny]

Originally Posted by pimplink

.xxx is badddd

mmmmm' kay?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I think .xxx would be a good idea if done right.

But so far its not being done right at all.

Its a money grab this time around like it has been before.
I have a novel idea, how about an industry extension that preserves and protects this industries freedom of speech. .xxx would fuel those protections with a lobby and representation like every other normal industry instead of the line pockets of a mysterious group of people whom obvious do not give a mother fuck about this biz.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Bump.

Because there are alot of fucken morons that do not give a fuck about this business and push this important thread down with the, "My cock is huge" is threads.

Wake up dumb assholes our industry is on the line here.

[SexyScribe]

bump

along with a reminder... baddog's post is about urging ASACP to rescind any support of dot XXX it may have previously put forth.

IMO, discussions on the merits of dot XXX deserve their own thread.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by SexyScribe

bump

along with a reminder... baddog's post is about urging ASACP to rescind any support of dot XXX it may have previously put forth.

IMO, discussions on the merits of dot XXX deserve their own thread.

Very good idea.

A round table needs to be made on how .xxx should be executed if at all.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I think .xxx would be a good idea if done right.

Share with us the right way.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Lenny2

I don't think webmasters should support ASACP until they start supporting us.

I completely agree with you, but I suspect ASCAP are anticipating so many $$$ from the XXX deal that they likely couldn't care less whether webmasters do support them any longer. Knowing this industry, how much money do you think they actually collect?

We really are a pathetic bunch. We sit with our thumbs up our asses for 9 months until the new 2257 regs are actually announced and then suddenly - mainly because there is no other option - most of us convince ourselves that FSC is going to solve all our problems. Hopefully that faith isn't misplaced, but in reality hardly anyone had even heard of FSC until a couple of weeks ago, knows anything about them, just how competent their team may be, or - except in the broadest terms - what are their aims. I have noticed that for an organization claiming to represent the whole adult industry and admitting they haven't paid much attention to the online sector in the past, FSC is still most noticeable by its almost complete absence from adult online community resources, such as boards like this. Still, if it all goes pear-shaped, it won't be our fault for failing to get organized. We backed FSC didn't we...

And we are handling the XXX TLD issue the same way. It's not new, but we didn't even get around to posting a few messages on the boards until everything was all but signed and sealed. Oh except that like the Acacia issue, this one also has people sacrificing industry interests for their own short-term gain. And we look like we are shaping up to make ASCAP the scapegoat as we did Matrix Content in relation to Acacia, while turning a blind eye to all the industry "heroes" who behaved just as badly. Is that a banner advertising XXX pre-registration I see at the top of GFY?

[Connor]

Anyone who knows me knows my position. At Cybernet Expo I publicily called for ASACP to rescind its support of .XXX and write a strongly worded letter of opposition. Other than for money, the organization has no business supporting .XXX because it does nothing to protect children. That should be the end of it, as far as ASACP is concerned. Like Mike expressed earlier, I also feel sorry for Joan because I don't think she made the final decision to send out that letter of support. And now that it's out there she's left defending it and trying to pretend that it's a "neutral" letter when clearly it is not neutral. I also know that if I was on the Advisory Council I would be absolutely PISSED about that letter, since I don't think the Council wanted a letter of support to be sent out... it looks like someone else made that decision and hoped to get away with it.

ASACP has a CLEAR opportunity here to do the right thing. We all heard Joan in San Diego say that if the Advisory Council tells her to write a letter of opposition then she will be required to do so. The Advisory Council should put that to the test.... give Joan the instruction she needs to do the right thing, and if she STILL doesn't do it or else writes some confusing and vague letter that can be read in 10 different ways then the members of the Council should think long and hard about why they are volunteering their time with this organization, and who is REALLY pulling the strings. I would like to be supportive of ASACP, but their position on .XXX and their failure to do the right thing here makes it difficult.

[taibo]

i dont support .xxx

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Soul_Rebel

Share with us the right way.

I have already posted about the right way.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=481769

Ya will have to read the whole thread though because it bends and twists to the solution.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Originally Posted by Connor

Anyone who knows me knows my position. At Cybernet Expo I publicily called for ASACP to rescind its support of .XXX and write a strongly worded letter of opposition. Other than for money, the organization has no business supporting .XXX because it does nothing to protect children. That should be the end of it, as far as ASACP is concerned. Like Mike expressed earlier, I also feel sorry for Joan because I don't think she made the final decision to send out that letter of support. And now that it's out there she's left defending it and trying to pretend that it's a "neutral" letter when clearly it is not neutral. I also know that if I was on the Advisory Council I would be absolutely PISSED about that letter, since I don't think the Council wanted a letter of support to be sent out... it looks like someone else made that decision and hoped to get away with it.

ASACP has a CLEAR opportunity here to do the right thing. We all heard Joan in San Diego say that if the Advisory Council tells her to write a letter of opposition then she will be required to do so. The Advisory Council should put that to the test.... give Joan the instruction she needs to do the right thing, and if she STILL doesn't do it or else writes some confusing and vague letter that can be read in 10 different ways then the members of the Council should think long and hard about why they are volunteering their time with this organization, and who is REALLY pulling the strings. I would like to be supportive of ASACP, but their position on .XXX and their failure to do the right thing here makes it difficult.

Maybe she got paid off?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

I have already posted about the right way.

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=481769

Ya will have to read the whole thread though because it bends and twists to the solution.

i've read this thread and I don't see anything beside the financial support of certain organizations. I don't think that's enough, neither I understand the reasoning behind this upcoming relationship. Can you provide us with more info about the UK guy behind the act? The whole thing stinks....

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

My solution to this is simple.

We can have a .xxx if the monies used in purchasing .xxx domains were used to fight off the government's right wing wacko's.

The industry needs armor, and we need proper representation like every other industry with a lobby.

My concept is simple.

Every domain purchase goes to the warchest to defend our industry inside and out including regulation of practices.

This scenerio that is playing out is simply retarded.
The ASACP is a small piece. There are other organizations that will recieve money that's goal is essentially to corale us all into .xxx.

Read it about. ALL of it.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by jayeff

I have noticed that for an organization claiming to represent the whole adult industry and admitting they haven't paid much attention to the online sector in the past, FSC is still most noticeable by its almost complete absence from adult online community resources, such as boards like this.

If you haven't heard much about the FSC then you probably just weren't paying attention to industry activism until recently. The organization has been trying to reach out to the online industry for years. Most webmasters didn't pay attention until 2257.

You probably just didn't know this, but I am on the Board of Directors for the FSC, and have been involved in some way with the organization for a while now. There was a time when I was concerned that the FSC was not showing enough attention to the online industry, but that has certainly changed in recent years.

That said, I completely agree with you that we tend to wait longer than we should to react to industry threats. As someone who has been trying to call attention to issues like 2257, dot-xxx and obscenity laws for many years now I can tell you that part of the problem is that whenever someone DOES try to get webmasters motivated in advance of a problem, someone else accuses them of being "Chicken Little" and all efforts to get webmasters to act are lost.

Those people who have been mocking others with "The Sky is Falling!" remarks have done a lot of damage. They have encouraged many webmasters to take a casual "nothing will hurt us" attitude towards important issues, and that's one of the reasons why we're in a tough spot right now. We're stuck scrambling at the last minute, like we are now with dot-xxx and 2257, because webmasters failed to take the threat seriously until the two-minute warning.

Hopefully we'll do better in the future, but the good news is that there still is time to defend ourselves. We are facing a number of threats to our business right now. This thread is a great example of the industry doing the right thing and calling on Joan and ASACP to rescing its support of dot-xxx publicily. If ASACP would do that, it would be tremendously helpful to those of us who are doing everything we can to fight against dot-xxx becoming a reality this year. Right now, ICANN thinks that the industry's own "child protection" organization supports .XXX, and we need to change that.

Baddog, my compliments for starting this thread and keeping it going.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by AlienQ

Maybe she got paid off?

I don't think JOAN got paid off, but I think a number of people did... and Joan as Executive Director doesn't always have the final say on issues like these. Sometimes she just has to do as instructed.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Connor I am just piecing things together.

I am still in the dark, however just piecing it together is spookie.
People have no idea. It's sad.

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by Connor

The organization has been trying to reach out to the online industry for years.

In theory maybe: I have been vaguely aware of FSC for years. But in practise how? One of the observations in my post was that even now, with a relatively high interest level from online webmasters (and their money), FSC still isn't regularly interacting with the online adult community at large either to find out what that community wants/needs or even purely out of self-interest, to raise its own profile.

I can guarantee that beyond the general declaration that "FSC is fighting 2257" hardly anyone here who has donated money recently has a clue specifically what FSC is trying to acheive as regards this issue. There are many branches of adult entertainment as a whole and they do not all have the same priorities and objectives. It's only an assumption by most people here that what FSC is fighting for will coincide with their interests. How many even know exactly what their "membership" means, beyond costing them money?

Whatever this sounds like, it is not a criticism of FSC. It's rather that most of us stuck our heads firmly in the sand for 9 months and have now convinced ourselves that we are dealing with the issue, when in reality all we have done is go into lemming mode, grab the first convenient option and hope for the best.

[davecummings]

Originally Posted by Connor

If you haven't heard much about the FSC then you probably just weren't paying attention to industry activism until recently. The organization has been trying to reach out to the online industry for years. Most webmasters didn't pay attention until 2257.

You probably just didn't know this, but I am on the Board of Directors for the FSC, and have been involved in some way with the organization for a while now. There was a time when I was concerned that the FSC was not showing enough attention to the online industry, but that has certainly changed in recent years.

That said, I completely agree with you that we tend to wait longer than we should to react to industry threats. As someone who has been trying to call attention to issues like 2257, dot-xxx and obscenity laws for many years now I can tell you that part of the problem is that whenever someone DOES try to get webmasters motivated in advance of a problem, someone else accuses them of being "Chicken Little" and all efforts to get webmasters to act are lost.

Those people who have been mocking others with "The Sky is Falling!" remarks have done a lot of damage. They have encouraged many webmasters to take a casual "nothing will hurt us" attitude towards important issues, and that's one of the reasons why we're in a tough spot right now. We're stuck scrambling at the last minute, like we are now with dot-xxx and 2257, because webmasters failed to take the threat seriously until the two-minute warning.

Hopefully we'll do better in the future, but the good news is that there still is time to defend ourselves. We are facing a number of threats to our business right now. This thread is a great example of the industry doing the right thing and calling on Joan and ASACP to rescing its support of dot-xxx publicily. If ASACP would do that, it would be tremendously helpful to those of us who are doing everything we can to fight against dot-xxx becoming a reality this year. Right now, ICANN thinks that the industry's own "child protection" organization supports .XXX, and we need to change that.

Baddog, my compliments for starting this thread and keeping it going.

IMHO, ASACP's Advisory Board should quickly meet to advise/demand that Joan immediately write a pointed letter rescinding ASACP's past position, and instead announce it's strong opposition to .xxx!

Dave

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Jayeff - To be blunt the Free Speech Coalition is the group that single handly has defended our industry since the video days all the way to the internet.

Without them in all seriousness our industry would have been over run by the government and essentially ruined.

There job and function has gone for years thanklessly by the morons that take for granted our right to express ourselves online.

Maybe you should instead learn about them rather than them having to force feed you what they do. There job is not easy, there job is based on attornies that put there time into defending us, on there own dime alot of the time.

FSC is underfunded, and becomming under equipped to battle the variety of things that are quite literally assaulting our industry.

I would highly reccomend you get involved, there function is crucial in keeping our voices pure and just because they are not glory hounds about the matter does not mean its OK to just assume they will always be around.

[Mr.Fiction]

Originally Posted by Connor

I don't think JOAN got paid off, but I think a number of people did... and Joan as Executive Director doesn't always have the final say on issues like these. Sometimes she just has to do as instructed.

If it's true that ASACP really got paid off to sell out the adult industry, like some have posted here, then what credibility do they have left?

Who would trust them to "protect children" if they are, as has been implied, willing to do or say anything for money?

Are those the kind of people you want "protecting" kids.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Quite Frankly the ASACP is not even a part of the adult industry.

Since CP is not technically what our industry is comprised of, nor is CP condoned and propagated by the industries working businesses.
CP is illegal and those that use it are not a part of our industry.

Technically speaking if they had to be classified.

And definatly speaking since the name change of there organisation no longer recognizes legal adult sites or an aspect there of.

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Perhaps ICANN will throw the entire thing out on that basis alone.

[SteveLightspeed]

Originally Posted by davecummings

IMHO, ASACP's Advisory Board should quickly meet to advise/demand that Joan immediately write a pointed letter rescinding ASACP's past position, and instead announce it's strong opposition to .xxx!

Dave

I wholeheartedly agree.

Joan always blames everything on the "advisory committee" (that no one in this industry elected, btw). Joan might just be the puppet/scape goat here, but hey, ASACP needs a good double-talker up front.

Roasting Joan doesn't solve the problem of a committee that SPEAKS FOR THE INDUSTRY but is not ELECTED BY THE INDUSTRY.

Steve Lightspeed

[pornguy]

.xxx will ONLY be used against us. It will make blocking the legal site far easier for the ISPS to do. And Companies like AOL will only allow the people that can afford to pay them to have the sites accessable with their system.

DOWN WITH .XXX

[Raven]

Originally Posted by baddog

That is not the point. Do you want the ASACP to rescind their support of .xxx? If so, speak up. If not, there are a few hundred thousand other threads here you can participate in.

I believe I must have missed something, baddog, because it was my understanding that ASACP's stand was neither for nor against, kind of like Switzerland.

[3piece chicken Dinner]

The nonprofit, run by representatives of adult Web sites, free-speech, privacy and child-advocacy concerns, would determine registration eligibility.

This quote is taken from HERE in the context of the article it implys that .xxx will have a Best Practices requirement. after reading the above mentioned quote.. It sure sounds like people may have to get the "good housekeeping seal" from ASACP in order to obtain their domains of choice. If someone had a long standing relationship with ASACP it seems like their requests might be approved a little quicker? If someone had a paid membership perhaps they get approval faster.

I am in no way implying that would happen. But indulge yourself and read the original article.

You guys are killing me here, Half of you don't think it's going to happen. when it has been pointed out to you VERY CLEARLY. Macks post documents the govt's feelings on the subject.

and if you took 5 fucking minutes to read you would see that ASACP stands to gain money NOT ONLY from the sale of .xxx domains. But as "The nonprofit, run by representatives of adult Web sites, free-speech, privacy and child-advocacy concerns, would determine registration eligibility." What part of this don't you understand.


Lensman wants Adult.xxx Lensman is a sponsor of ASACP Lensman will get Adult.xxx.

Baddog want Whitecheech.xxx. Baddog is not a sponsor of ASACP. Baddog's now needs to meet eligibility registration requirements that will be reviewed by "The nonprofit, run by representatives of adult Web sites, free-speech, privacy and child-advocacy concerns, would determine registration eligibility."


jesus, you guys are killing me here. The letter is not going to happen.

[Webby]

Based on the alleged reasons for xxx, namely to protect children blah - I do not support any bullshit about xxx TLD's.

I also have nada time to waste on people who supposedly serve on committees of organizations and make statements which "appear" to represent these committees, but in fact, have no relevance.

It is also preferable any govt's stay the fuck out of net activity - their track record where they have stepped in, has been inept.

Back to basics! The ASACP has done good stuff in the past in regard to child protection. However, incidents reported, both via ASACP and direct to relevant law enforcement agencies have not been followed up by these agencies to the degree expected and it's time they commenced enforcing current laws instead of creating still more and setting "rules" which are unenforceable.

Bottom line... orgs sit on their asses and have meetings and law enforcement are inclined to do the same unless poked up the ass by public incidents/govt reps. This does nothing to help children - when ya gonna quit talking and start acting?

Here we are now sitting talking about some net TLD's when relevant action to protect children is totally ignored. That is one weirdo world!!


PS.. There are many good officers who specialize in this field and do a lot to protect children ... and aftercare, - but they are not funded to the degree needed and this has little to do with the net - absue is a daily fact of life for some children and has been for decades. Protecting children means chasing pedos, and not just in the US. It means perseverance in chasing a scumbag for sometimes years..... It means chasing a pervert priest over several continents... Fund these people and let them do their job in the real world. Abused kids don't give a shit about ASACP or xxx TLD's. The net is but a grain of sand in the overall picture and it's almost a total absurdity to even be thinking on the level of xxx TLD's.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by jayeff

In theory maybe: I have been vaguely aware of FSC for years. But in practise how? One of the observations in my post was that even now, with a relatively high interest level from online webmasters (and their money), FSC still isn't regularly interacting with the online adult community at large either to find out what that community wants/needs or even purely out of self-interest, to raise its own profile.

I can guarantee that beyond the general declaration that "FSC is fighting 2257" hardly anyone here who has donated money recently has a clue specifically what FSC is trying to acheive as regards this issue. There are many branches of adult entertainment as a whole and they do not all have the same priorities and objectives. It's only an assumption by most people here that what FSC is fighting for will coincide with their interests. How many even know exactly what their "membership" means, beyond costing them money?

Whatever this sounds like, it is not a criticism of FSC. It's rather that most of us stuck our heads firmly in the sand for 9 months and have now convinced ourselves that we are dealing with the issue, when in reality all we have done is go into lemming mode, grab the first convenient option and hope for the best.

Well, I don't want to turn this into an FSC thread, but I do think that you probably weren't paying attention to FSC activities over the past few years. Many remember the FSC defeating the law that would have effectively outlawed all barely legal sites by calling them "virtual child pornography." That was fought at the Supreme Court level years ago, and directly affected the adult internet industry even though few companies from the internet segment stepped up with financial contributions. Then there is the regular California lobbying, the hiring of a federal lobbyist, the past hearing on .XXX that raised awareness about the issue... just to list a few. I think the problem you're pointing to is a lack of PUBLICITY of accomplishments, which is something that seems to have been changed with the hiring of Michelle Freridge as Executive Director. And of course 2257 has brought a lot of focus too, as you point out. But the FSC has been at just about every Internext show from back in the IA2000 days. Those who were interested, as I was one of them, was always able to find out what the FSC was up to. As you've suggested, the problem is that not enought webmasters have been interested in the past... too few bothered to take industry activism seriously. If it took 2257 and .XXX then so be it... let's put our newfound energy to some positive use for the industry.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Raven

I believe I must have missed something, baddog, because it was my understanding that ASACP's stand was neither for nor against, kind of like Switzerland.

Then Raven what you missed was Joan's letter to ICANN. If you think that's a neutral letter then I have a bridge to sell you.